Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!?

Zaall · July 04, 2008, 01:37 AM

Hey guys, first post here.

I want to have better chance to be in raid groups, Since my gears is not the best, if not the worst if you think of 700 spell damage, so I came to think of being a Utility warlock. I have searched many websites for worth of this talents:

3/3 Improved IMP = 90+ STAMINA for party members
2/2 Improved HS = 3000+ Health restore, or 6k crit :D
5/5 Shadow Embrace = 5% less physical damage to tank and all party members in case of AoE
3/3 Malediction = 3% more bonus from CoS/CoE

and to have a mean DpS in raids as well as solo farming (Im a tailor and need primals, and netherweb silks!) I considered to spend this talents :

5/5 Fel Concentration = Drain tanking! still good dps with affliction came below!
5/5 Improved Corruption
2/5 Suppression (I already have 100 hit rating)
3/3 Empowered Corruption
and more to reach Unstable Afflictoin

I'm going to respec to this built below (no game card yet :()

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...10000000000000

Would you please tell me how you think about this guys? is there any changes that could bring more DPS out of this utility build? as you can see I didn't spend talents in life tap ( I got dark pact instead).

Theleb · July 04, 2008, 02:51 AM

5/5 Fel Concentration is pretty irrelevant for DPS but with your gear you've definately made the right choice to move away from ruin - you don't have the statistics to support it at the moment and Unstable Affliction should indeed do better DPS.

Instant HoT is also a non-DPS talent so omitting those two choices, I'd go with something like:

WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator

Imp Curse of Agony for Grinding and throwing on Off-tanked Mobs, slightly increased Stamina, improved Drain Life for self-healing in emergencies, Imp Life Tap for mana efficiency and dropping IHoT/Fel Conc.

Couple of notes about your gear:

Gemming for haste/crit is unimportant next to +damage. You could use
Spell pentetration isn't important for PvE - its a PvP stat.
Sometimes its worth ignoring the socket bonus if the DPS gain from individual gems outweighs that.
If you're keeping your gloves, get +20 damage on them, same with bracers.
Basically, all the +crit gear that I'm seeing is unimportant so feel free to replace gems/trinkets with sheer +damage as neccesary.
Grind scryer rep for the shoulder enchant/trinket.

You've made a good start, keep it up

Oaken · July 04, 2008, 05:34 AM

Honestly i am not impressed.
Your gear is pretty low, yet.
Both your and Thelebs speccs are abit awkward.
A decent support-specc for starting out looks like that:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...10000000000000
There is no need to specc into Shadow Embrace, unless you have a really weak tank, but actually that is his business, not yours.
Nor is there any need to specc into iHoT.
For Solofarming DoT up 2-3 mobs, esepcially Siphon Life is your friend here, and Drain Life, finish of the last Mob with Drain Soul and you have an endless supply of Life and Mana.
As Theleb mentioned your socket choice is rather poor, especially considering that you are far away from the hitcap.
There are many great posts here about how to specc, and how to pic your gear according to you state of progress.
-> Gearing Your Warlock (2.4 Edition) - The Warlocks Den Forums
I do not mean to devastate you, but to encourage you, that you can get alot
more out of your character even if he is newly 70 and if you have only a few hours a night to play.

Zaall · July 04, 2008, 06:26 AM

Thanks guys,

I think Imp HoT is a must for a affliction warlock, with those pesky rogues and anti fear trinkets out there, you need to be very quick to kick them.

first Death Coil to force em to a 3 sec flee and regain a little health. then instant HoT (they use trinket now) and then a stable fear.

Also I found Instant HoT is useful in some raids, when your hunter's pet ninja pulls some mobs, you can use this 8 sec fear (most times 6 sec with lower rank) and finally the must fun for warlocks is using instant HoT in BG's!!! so I really love it!

as for Shadow Embrace I think it will save some asses on long boss fights, I think I'm going to try it and if it aint gonna worth it, I will kick it and just put 1 point for 4% extra Drain Life bonus.

for 5 point in Fel Comcentration, its not for the raids, or it may be. specially when there is lots of adds and trash mobs. Im thinking of atleast 4 point in this, is there a MEAN difference between 4 points and 5 ? sure it is but better than no points.

and for gear! its too crap so I dont want to talk about em. I definitly must be a good utility warlock to have the chance to enter raids and still do mean dps so I can roll for some tokens.

Malevevely · July 04, 2008, 02:51 PM

SE is THE reason people take a 40/0/21 support lock in later content it is one of if not the best (With CoE changes it has some competition) affliction support talents. It stacks with imp demo and can really help undergeared raids progress faster. See first brut kills for most guilds have a 5/5 SE lock in the raid. The support talent that is weakest is imp imp speccing into a standard 41/x/17 +3.

Anklenibbler · July 04, 2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malevevely

SE is THE reason people take a 40/0/21 support lock in later content it is one of if not the best (With CoE changes it has some competition) affliction support talents. It stacks with imp demo and can really help undergeared raids progress faster. See first brut kills for most guilds have a 5/5 SE lock in the raid. The support talent that is weakest is imp imp speccing into a standard 41/x/17 +3.

QFT

Zaall · July 05, 2008, 02:45 AM

a VERY important question!!!!

SE will stack with other similar effect like warriors demo shout???

*** Information added 7 Minutes and 1 Seconds later... ***

OMG buy latest 2.4.3 patch and following changes :

Curse of Shadows: This spell has been removed.
Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire.

I am going to use this spec :
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

and I will use immolate/incenerate as supporting dps as well as Drain Life. what you say guys?

Oaken · July 05, 2008, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malevevely

SE is THE reason people take a 40/0/21 support lock in later content it is one of if not the best (With CoE changes it has some competition) affliction support talents. It stacks with imp demo and can really help undergeared raids progress faster. See first brut kills for most guilds have a 5/5 SE lock in the raid. The support talent that is weakest is imp imp speccing into a standard 41/x/17 +3.

lal <- yes that is a valid argument for your post.
people needing an SE lock for Brutallus really shouldn´t be there!

Yes demo and SE will stack.
Honestly, you guys are talking about Brutallus, where the Zaall is at the very beginning of his raiding career and even for that he is
rather low equipped. He should focus on Affliction at that point where he is at right now, with 100 spellhit his shadowbolts will do him not a big favor.

Malevevely · July 05, 2008, 07:50 AM

@Zaell - DA is NOT worth taking points to alone, not ever it is a filler talent that is best in tier when building towards later demo talents. For 3 valueble points you get 30 +damage. Also DE does not belong in any non demo raiding build. The 17 points in destro are pretty much required for most raiding (Last 7 points could be argued on a felguard or SE/DS/Bane spec). Try
WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator

imp imp was skipped as it is a difference of less then 200hp for your group members between an imp and imp imp while there was only enough points left for 1/2 imp hs let a demo lock or destro lock use filler points to get to 2/2

@ Oak - Even in early Tier raiding SE has its uses and can be generous mitigation on even 10 man bosses like bear and lynx with their lashes. Not to mention TW in ssc and a long list of others 5% mitigation on damage is 5% which far outweighs any other debuff a lock can contribute to raid utility. Not really too sure about your affliction comment as SE is a mid tier aff talent and all the advise given was for an aff spec lock.

Derch · July 05, 2008, 09:38 AM

Zaall, there's just one problem with your speccs, your trying to get the imba a$$-roasting specc that will help you in PvE but you dont want to skip stuff for PvP, warlocks have no cookie-cutter specc for PvE and PvP, there's one for PvP and 2 for PvE (where one needs good gear) You simply can't get the best out of both at the same time.

July 04, 2008, 01:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Zaall Registered Character Info Zaall 70 Human Warlock Frostmane Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 37/3/21	Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? Hey guys, first post here. I want to have better chance to be in raid groups, Since my gears is not the best, if not the worst if you think of 700 spell damage, so I came to think of being a Utility warlock. I have searched many websites for worth of this talents: 3/3 Improved IMP = 90+ STAMINA for party members 2/2 Improved HS = 3000+ Health restore, or 6k crit :D 5/5 Shadow Embrace = 5% less physical damage to tank and all party members in case of AoE 3/3 Malediction = 3% more bonus from CoS/CoE and to have a mean DpS in raids as well as solo farming (Im a tailor and need primals, and netherweb silks!) I considered to spend this talents : 5/5 Fel Concentration = Drain tanking! still good dps with affliction came below! 5/5 Improved Corruption 2/5 Suppression (I already have 100 hit rating) 3/3 Empowered Corruption and more to reach Unstable Afflictoin I'm going to respec to this built below (no game card yet :() http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...10000000000000 Would you please tell me how you think about this guys? is there any changes that could bring more DPS out of this utility build? as you can see I didn't spend talents in life tap ( I got dark pact instead).

July 04, 2008, 02:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? 5/5 Fel Concentration is pretty irrelevant for DPS but with your gear you've definately made the right choice to move away from ruin - you don't have the statistics to support it at the moment and Unstable Affliction should indeed do better DPS. Instant HoT is also a non-DPS talent so omitting those two choices, I'd go with something like: WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator Imp Curse of Agony for Grinding and throwing on Off-tanked Mobs, slightly increased Stamina, improved Drain Life for self-healing in emergencies, Imp Life Tap for mana efficiency and dropping IHoT/Fel Conc. Couple of notes about your gear: Gemming for haste/crit is unimportant next to +damage. You could use Spell pentetration isn't important for PvE - its a PvP stat. Sometimes its worth ignoring the socket bonus if the DPS gain from individual gems outweighs that. If you're keeping your gloves, get +20 damage on them, same with bracers. Basically, all the +crit gear that I'm seeing is unimportant so feel free to replace gems/trinkets with sheer +damage as neccesary. Grind scryer rep for the shoulder enchant/trinket. You've made a good start, keep it up

July 04, 2008, 05:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Oaken Member Character Info Voidnull 70 Undead Warlock Gorgonnash Euro PvP Guild: unleash Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? Honestly i am not impressed. Your gear is pretty low, yet. Both your and Thelebs speccs are abit awkward. A decent support-specc for starting out looks like that: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...10000000000000 There is no need to specc into Shadow Embrace, unless you have a really weak tank, but actually that is his business, not yours. Nor is there any need to specc into iHoT. For Solofarming DoT up 2-3 mobs, esepcially Siphon Life is your friend here, and Drain Life, finish of the last Mob with Drain Soul and you have an endless supply of Life and Mana. As Theleb mentioned your socket choice is rather poor, especially considering that you are far away from the hitcap. There are many great posts here about how to specc, and how to pic your gear according to you state of progress. -> Gearing Your Warlock (2.4 Edition) - The Warlocks Den Forums I do not mean to devastate you, but to encourage you, that you can get alot more out of your character even if he is newly 70 and if you have only a few hours a night to play.

July 04, 2008, 06:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
Zaall Registered Character Info Zaall 70 Human Warlock Frostmane Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 37/3/21	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? Thanks guys, I think Imp HoT is a must for a affliction warlock, with those pesky rogues and anti fear trinkets out there, you need to be very quick to kick them. first Death Coil to force em to a 3 sec flee and regain a little health. then instant HoT (they use trinket now) and then a stable fear. Also I found Instant HoT is useful in some raids, when your hunter's pet ninja pulls some mobs, you can use this 8 sec fear (most times 6 sec with lower rank) and finally the must fun for warlocks is using instant HoT in BG's!!! so I really love it! as for Shadow Embrace I think it will save some asses on long boss fights, I think I'm going to try it and if it aint gonna worth it, I will kick it and just put 1 point for 4% extra Drain Life bonus. for 5 point in Fel Comcentration, its not for the raids, or it may be. specially when there is lots of adds and trash mobs. Im thinking of atleast 4 point in this, is there a MEAN difference between 4 points and 5 ? sure it is but better than no points. and for gear! its too crap so I dont want to talk about em. I definitly must be a good utility warlock to have the chance to enter raids and still do mean dps so I can roll for some tokens. Last edited by Zaall; July 04, 2008 at 06:53 AM.

July 04, 2008, 02:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
Malevevely Member Character Info Malevevely 70 Undead Warlock KJ US PvP	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? SE is THE reason people take a 40/0/21 support lock in later content it is one of if not the best (With CoE changes it has some competition) affliction support talents. It stacks with imp demo and can really help undergeared raids progress faster. See first brut kills for most guilds have a 5/5 SE lock in the raid. The support talent that is weakest is imp imp speccing into a standard 41/x/17 +3. Last edited by Malevevely; July 04, 2008 at 02:54 PM.

July 05, 2008, 02:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Zaall Registered Character Info Zaall 70 Human Warlock Frostmane Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 37/3/21	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? a VERY important question!!!! SE will stack with other similar effect like warriors demo shout??? * Information added 7 Minutes and 1 Seconds later... * OMG buy latest 2.4.3 patch and following changes : Curse of Shadows: This spell has been removed. Curse of Elements: This spell now applies to Arcane and Shadow damage, as well as Frost and Fire. I am going to use this spec : http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000 and I will use immolate/incenerate as supporting dps as well as Drain Life. what you say guys?

July 05, 2008, 07:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Malevevely Member Character Info Malevevely 70 Undead Warlock KJ US PvP	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? @Zaell - DA is NOT worth taking points to alone, not ever it is a filler talent that is best in tier when building towards later demo talents. For 3 valueble points you get 30 +damage. Also DE does not belong in any non demo raiding build. The 17 points in destro are pretty much required for most raiding (Last 7 points could be argued on a felguard or SE/DS/Bane spec). Try WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator imp imp was skipped as it is a difference of less then 200hp for your group members between an imp and imp imp while there was only enough points left for 1/2 imp hs let a demo lock or destro lock use filler points to get to 2/2 @ Oak - Even in early Tier raiding SE has its uses and can be generous mitigation on even 10 man bosses like bear and lynx with their lashes. Not to mention TW in ssc and a long list of others 5% mitigation on damage is 5% which far outweighs any other debuff a lock can contribute to raid utility. Not really too sure about your affliction comment as SE is a mid tier aff talent and all the advise given was for an aff spec lock. Last edited by Malevevely; July 05, 2008 at 08:00 AM.

July 05, 2008, 09:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Derch Member Character Info Derch 70 Human Warlock Talnivarr Euro PvP	Re: Best UTILITY warlock yet good DPS, HOW!? Zaall, there's just one problem with your speccs, your trying to get the imba a$$-roasting specc that will help you in PvE but you dont want to skip stuff for PvP, warlocks have no cookie-cutter specc for PvE and PvP, there's one for PvP and 2 for PvE (where one needs good gear) You simply can't get the best out of both at the same time.