Destro --> UA [PvP, Arena]

Redmage · July 15, 2008, 07:46 PM

After spending 9 months as mostly Destro (7/7/47 and variants), I have decided to make a switch to UA type builds for PvP, focusing on 3v3, 2v2, and BGs.

Situation:

The main reason being that I have RL friends teammates that have classes that don't have much CC (BM Hunter, Holy Paladin). That means I am normally responsible in controlling the healer, CCing people off, Burst DPSing main targets. The fact that destro is squishy and a Pally is no druid makes this pretty difficult for me. Trying to coordinate dps with hunter while I am usually the focus target is also hard. We get easily outhealed when the damage and CC is not coordinated and this is the main reason that we are losing. (Surprisingly, not really due to squishiness).

Solution:
Given the team makeup, I am thinking that by going UA, the strong dots that i can apply on targets mean that i will still be DPSing when the hunter is hitting the main target. I can spend more of my time CCing healers. There will be less need for me to perfectly coordinate that burst damage. In a way, the spec is a lot more forgiving.

Issues:
I have 2 questions:

1) Gear: I was in full S2/3/4 Felweave, Vindicator Silk, and Merc Staff Spell Crit setup from destro. Spell Crit is quite useless for Affliction.

2) Given my gear, and my team comp (Holy Paladin, BM hunter), how would you pick the non-core talent points.

Spec: I know the cookie cutter 43/7/11 build. My question to you experts here is which of the non-core talents would you take?

Suppression: I am the only reliable on demand CC in the group, so having even one of my fear resisted is bad. Worth it?

Imp Curse of Weakness: I don't have soul link, any damage mitigation is good.

Imp Curse of Agony: I think the actual difference is about +300dmg per curse? It is not ground breaking but I am there for the DPS, so this makes sense.

Fel Concentration: I am playing with a Pally most of the time, so I probably don't need full 5/5 I think? I haven't used drain life for the longest of times in destro..heh heh

Shadow Embrace: Is 5/5 worth it? I don't have soul link, any damage mitigation is good.

Malediction: I guess without a SP, the synergy is not there, and I will most likely be using the other curses.

Improved Healthstone: This skill doesn't scale, so the +410ish health is a lot less signficant when my health pool is 12k, vs that when i was fresthly 70 and was at 8k health.

Devastation: Now normally, I would imagine UA locks don't care for Crit, but I happen to have a ton of spell crit sitting in my gear. The +spell crit/talent point of investment has always been good from Devastation. The crit without ruin is gimped of course, but getting Imp SB debuff is pretty nice. Given my gear situation, this make sense.

My current build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Iq0rwRfkqtbo0xZxx0p

Note, I have no real aspiration to hit 2k or anything, but given how well we do in 1v1 normally, I would like to think that 1800 is possible.

Would love to hear your thoughts and advice on this, thanks.

Jordan Cou · July 17, 2008, 11:33 AM

well in my opinion at this day and age of arena CC is not the best bet. while seduce macros r not too shaby, really the succubuss only has like 4k health if that, so she will die quickly or people will use their trinkets so you will have to re-CC or keep her on aggro and hope she gets the right target. and in all that time you were trying to CC i bet a melee was killing you or your healer... because thats what happens to me when i try to CC in 3 v 3 on my lock. your options are as follows

the new cookie cutter pvp lock spec is called SL/SL because you spec to soul siphon and soul link in the respected trees. While your overal dps will suffer, especially if you r used to being destro, your ability to stay alive will increase dramatically. granted you will need the extra heals to keep you up if people r focusing on you, but with this spec you can stay alive if one melee is just standing there wacking at ya.

WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator

that is my friends spec it can be tweaked in many ways to buff your pet or you a little more, but you get the general idea of this spec by seeing it layed out. good luck

Theleb · July 17, 2008, 12:25 PM

Jordan - as with your other posts we appreciate you making the effort to provide your opinion but if you could refrain from using abbreviations and text speech as much as possible that would be greatly appreciated.

We've had this debate with Redmage many times before and he's always been a strong proponent of Destruction builds

I wouldn't spec UA for Arena - for exactly the same reason I wouldn't spec Destro - surviveability. SL/SL is, as you well know - the premier Arena spec for obvious reasons but your pet choice is a little bit...odd.

Simply put, the Felhunter can survive a lot of punishment and thats your main source of healer interupts along with CoT. CoW should be up on melee/physical DPS classes/Pets except when kiting with CoE so taking improved Curse of Agony seems redundant UNLESS its as a filler (Which is what I used to do).

The build I used to use back in S1/S2 was:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Redmage · July 17, 2008, 07:22 PM

Thank you for the advice and replies.

Jordan, thanks for your Sl/sl link. Actually even as destro, I don't use the succubus in arenas, for the reason Theleb mentions. Yes, it is very fun in BG to kill 2 or even 3 scub gear enemies...but if they have even a hint of what they are doing......

Theleb, I absolutely agree with you that SL/SL is the best spec for arenas. I have had soul link from the 50% mitigation days, and was 7/31/13 to rank 9. I actually leveled 3-4 levels in SL/SL (lol) before it was deemed as THE arena spec. (Not saying i am a pioneer, I didn't even think about the PvP/arena implications back then, just thought it was an OP drain tank build..heh heh).

However, my limitations is that I only arena with RL friends, and my healer friends are fairly new to PvP. I am of the opinion that SL/SL only really shines when you have a decent healer. So until my healers grow up and get more experience. Of course the counterpoint is that maybe by going SL/SL, I will give them a bit more breathing space to grow...lol.

With good gear, i actually don't think the reason that destro fails is survivability. It is an issue for Non SL builds in 5v5. But in 2v2, or even 3v3, the issue is that outlast is the name of the game given LOS, pillar humping, and Heals>DPS. My team make up lacks CC, so even if we pile on the dps, if i don't do something about locking down the healer, the main target gets healed. That is the major reason why we are failing.

I am just trying to make 1800 or so....I am not aiming at Brutal Gladiator, heh.

Well back to the original topic, I guess I am just trying to get a sense of the filler talents for the UA builds, or whether they are useful, or your experience with them.

July 15, 2008, 07:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Redmage Member Character Info Ris 70 Gnome Warlock Bloodhoof US PvE Guild: Council of Arathor Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/14/47	Destro --> UA [PvP, Arena] After spending 9 months as mostly Destro (7/7/47 and variants), I have decided to make a switch to UA type builds for PvP, focusing on 3v3, 2v2, and BGs. Situation: The main reason being that I have RL friends teammates that have classes that don't have much CC (BM Hunter, Holy Paladin). That means I am normally responsible in controlling the healer, CCing people off, Burst DPSing main targets. The fact that destro is squishy and a Pally is no druid makes this pretty difficult for me. Trying to coordinate dps with hunter while I am usually the focus target is also hard. We get easily outhealed when the damage and CC is not coordinated and this is the main reason that we are losing. (Surprisingly, not really due to squishiness). Solution: Given the team makeup, I am thinking that by going UA, the strong dots that i can apply on targets mean that i will still be DPSing when the hunter is hitting the main target. I can spend more of my time CCing healers. There will be less need for me to perfectly coordinate that burst damage. In a way, the spec is a lot more forgiving. Issues: I have 2 questions: 1) Gear: I was in full S2/3/4 Felweave, Vindicator Silk, and Merc Staff Spell Crit setup from destro. Spell Crit is quite useless for Affliction. 2) Given my gear, and my team comp (Holy Paladin, BM hunter), how would you pick the non-core talent points. Spec: I know the cookie cutter 43/7/11 build. My question to you experts here is which of the non-core talents would you take? Suppression: I am the only reliable on demand CC in the group, so having even one of my fear resisted is bad. Worth it? Imp Curse of Weakness: I don't have soul link, any damage mitigation is good. Imp Curse of Agony: I think the actual difference is about +300dmg per curse? It is not ground breaking but I am there for the DPS, so this makes sense. Fel Concentration: I am playing with a Pally most of the time, so I probably don't need full 5/5 I think? I haven't used drain life for the longest of times in destro..heh heh Shadow Embrace: Is 5/5 worth it? I don't have soul link, any damage mitigation is good. Malediction: I guess without a SP, the synergy is not there, and I will most likely be using the other curses. Improved Healthstone: This skill doesn't scale, so the +410ish health is a lot less signficant when my health pool is 12k, vs that when i was fresthly 70 and was at 8k health. Devastation: Now normally, I would imagine UA locks don't care for Crit, but I happen to have a ton of spell crit sitting in my gear. The +spell crit/talent point of investment has always been good from Devastation. The crit without ruin is gimped of course, but getting Imp SB debuff is pretty nice. Given my gear situation, this make sense. My current build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Iq0rwRfkqtbo0xZxx0p Note, I have no real aspiration to hit 2k or anything, but given how well we do in 1v1 normally, I would like to think that 1800 is possible. Would love to hear your thoughts and advice on this, thanks.

July 17, 2008, 11:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jordan Cou Lurker Character Info Minuhsius 70 Undead Warlock Trollbane US PvE Guild: Forsaken Alliances	Re: Destro --> UA [PvP, Arena] well in my opinion at this day and age of arena CC is not the best bet. while seduce macros r not too shaby, really the succubuss only has like 4k health if that, so she will die quickly or people will use their trinkets so you will have to re-CC or keep her on aggro and hope she gets the right target. and in all that time you were trying to CC i bet a melee was killing you or your healer... because thats what happens to me when i try to CC in 3 v 3 on my lock. your options are as follows the new cookie cutter pvp lock spec is called SL/SL because you spec to soul siphon and soul link in the respected trees. While your overal dps will suffer, especially if you r used to being destro, your ability to stay alive will increase dramatically. granted you will need the extra heals to keep you up if people r focusing on you, but with this spec you can stay alive if one melee is just standing there wacking at ya. WorldofWarcraft.com - Talent Calculator that is my friends spec it can be tweaked in many ways to buff your pet or you a little more, but you get the general idea of this spec by seeing it layed out. good luck

July 17, 2008, 12:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
Theleb Moderator Character Info Theleb 70 Human Warlock Shadowsong Euro PvE Guild: Original Talent Spec: 0/46/15	Re: Destro --> UA [PvP, Arena] Jordan - as with your other posts we appreciate you making the effort to provide your opinion but if you could refrain from using abbreviations and text speech as much as possible that would be greatly appreciated. We've had this debate with Redmage many times before and he's always been a strong proponent of Destruction builds I wouldn't spec UA for Arena - for exactly the same reason I wouldn't spec Destro - surviveability. SL/SL is, as you well know - the premier Arena spec for obvious reasons but your pet choice is a little bit...odd. Simply put, the Felhunter can survive a lot of punishment and thats your main source of healer interupts along with CoT. CoW should be up on melee/physical DPS classes/Pets except when kiting with CoE so taking improved Curse of Agony seems redundant UNLESS its as a filler (Which is what I used to do). The build I used to use back in S1/S2 was: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

July 17, 2008, 07:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Redmage Member Character Info Ris 70 Gnome Warlock Bloodhoof US PvE Guild: Council of Arathor Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/14/47	Re: Destro --> UA [PvP, Arena] Thank you for the advice and replies. Jordan, thanks for your Sl/sl link. Actually even as destro, I don't use the succubus in arenas, for the reason Theleb mentions. Yes, it is very fun in BG to kill 2 or even 3 scub gear enemies...but if they have even a hint of what they are doing...... Theleb, I absolutely agree with you that SL/SL is the best spec for arenas. I have had soul link from the 50% mitigation days, and was 7/31/13 to rank 9. I actually leveled 3-4 levels in SL/SL (lol) before it was deemed as THE arena spec. (Not saying i am a pioneer, I didn't even think about the PvP/arena implications back then, just thought it was an OP drain tank build..heh heh). However, my limitations is that I only arena with RL friends, and my healer friends are fairly new to PvP. I am of the opinion that SL/SL only really shines when you have a decent healer. So until my healers grow up and get more experience. Of course the counterpoint is that maybe by going SL/SL, I will give them a bit more breathing space to grow...lol. With good gear, i actually don't think the reason that destro fails is survivability. It is an issue for Non SL builds in 5v5. But in 2v2, or even 3v3, the issue is that outlast is the name of the game given LOS, pillar humping, and Heals>DPS. My team make up lacks CC, so even if we pile on the dps, if i don't do something about locking down the healer, the main target gets healed. That is the major reason why we are failing. I am just trying to make 1800 or so....I am not aiming at Brutal Gladiator, heh. Well back to the original topic, I guess I am just trying to get a sense of the filler talents for the UA builds, or whether they are useful, or your experience with them.