Full Affliction or SL/SL for 65 plus

[Novindius]

Gents and Ladies

This is my first character, and my most beloved!! I love locks!! Anyway, I have been mainly pure affliction from word dot, with a couple of points in both Demo and Destro, but am a little peaved at the lack of survivability, as I am now dabbeling a bit more in PVP rather than PVE.

Hence my question is, I fancy trying the SL/SL build to get on better in PVP, but firstly I dont know at 65 what the best talent layout is, and secondly, I am nervous about letting my staple UA go. Can anybody offer any help?

Sorry, one other question. Is a SL/Sl build limited to PVE? Would I be able to raid still when I hit higher levels?

[Theleb]

SL/SL has no place in PvE but as I'm sure you noticed its de rigeur for PvP for most people

At 65 (Presuming you want to boost your suviveability as much as possible) I would probably go:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Just so that you have all the talents from Demonology that boost your chances of survival. For further reading this thread is fairly exhaustive:

What is SL/SL? - The Warlocks Den Forums

[ydnandrew]

An sl/sl lock in raids is kind of like taking an MS warrior or Disc priest. It's just not a good idea. Now granted I have managed over 800 dps on normal raid boss fights as sl/sl, but it was with over 1400 shadow damage and 202 spell hit. But if I compared that to destro or UA my destro dps on those same fights is around 1100 and UA 900+.

The best plan, and I know that this is not what anyone wants to hear, is to choose 2 different specs that you will go back and forth with. Go do 4 or 5 dailies on the days you need to respec and that will cover the costs. With the wow economy the way it is now a 50g respec fee is nothing.

If you are bothered by the lack of survivability UA has then sl/sl or felguard would definitely be better for you in pvp. 41/0/20 or some similar version of UA is usually preferred for pve until you have gear for destruction.

Now you asked about 65 plus. If you want to be more effective in BGs from 65-69 I suppose an sl/sl spec would be fine, and you should be able to quest/grind just fine that way.

[Xyndra]

Agreed, SL/SL is popular in PVP. I've tried it and have lived a lot longer with PVE gear equipped.

I was full affliction from 60-70 and still am. I never had a problem with surviving...dot and drain-tank. If I can remember, when I was leveling, I never had any points in destro. Only time I threw a SB was when nightfall proc'd.

Use your VW...send him in and start dotting. Don't use immolate since it can pull aggro quickly..then start the draining.

[Theleb]

The best plan, and I know that this is not what anyone wants to hear, is to choose 2 different specs that you will go back and forth with. Go do 4 or 5 dailies on the days you need to respec and that will cover the costs. With the wow economy the way it is now a 50g respec fee is nothing.

This ^^

The other option is to look into a Hybrid Felguard build which will do perfectly well for PvP or PvE - 6/44/11 or something similar.

[Xyndra]

Originally Posted by ydnandrew

Go do 4 or 5 dailies on the days you need to respec and that will cover the costs.

Were there dailies at level 65? The op is 65.

[Novindius]

At the moment, I am 44/2/10, as you can see, but I use imp and Dark Pact as mana battery. I might be missing something, but I find using anything other than imp as an affliction lock is useless. My VW, doesn't hold aggro long enough as I do a fair amount of damage, and none of the others seem particularly usefull. Dont get me wrong, there are few things better than in a BG running around and dotting everything that moves and getting kills that way, and 1 on 1 I can kill most everything, but I have heard all these tales about SL/SL locks at say 65 taking on 2 70s and killing both. Thats what I want if it is possible. BTW the same lock said that he can kill the dreaded rogues that plague our lives with the SL/SL spec. I HATE ROGUES LOL

My biggest problem is that I am so used to playing this spec, I dont want to look like a noob and spec different talents and get owned all the time.

[miyouki]

I was in the same boat as you buddy...

I knew I wanted to pvp hard (as I came from a very heavy pvp background in games such as UltimaOnline) and theres nothing like rolling face of human opponents rarther than the computer.

at about 66 I respecced SL/SL from the Deep afflic drain tank build which was awosme for leveling. Reason why, was to get used to the spec so that I could be confident in bgs and arena as soon as I dinged 70.

nowdays i play a variant of the Sl/SL... 2s with a resto druid and 5s and am huge on pvp. Plenty of arena and bgs constantly.

at 65, i'd go with this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

and the spec I play at 70 which is great for areana is this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
if your interested.

GL

[Novindius]

Cheers Miyouki

Could I ask why you would choose Demonic Knowledge over Demonic Res at 65? Why not a mix of both?

I know what you mean. I have been PVE for a while now, and am starting to go PVP more, cause like you said, PVE is cool, but beating a PVP down is NICE. Anyway, I will try it for a change and re spec if I need to.

Thanx to everyone else for their help and advice also, it is much appreciated.

I would also welcome any future advice or tips.

[ydnandrew]

Originally Posted by Xyndra

Were there dailies at level 65? The op is 65.

I was talking about at level 70 obviously, otherwise there is no need to even think about a raiding spec. I thought I clarified that a little farther down on my post.

As for a 65 killing 2 70s in pvp, don't count on that happening often with any spec or gear combination. Not unless they're afk anyway. SL/SL will give you a better chance of surviving rogue attacks, however. Still, beating a decent rogue usually takes a pvp spec, gear, skill and sometimes luck.

As to the reason for demo knowledge over demo res at 65 I'd say it's because gear level is going to be much closer at 65-69 than it would if you were a fresh 70 in all greens/blues going up against people in all merc or higher gear. The extra fire power from demo knowledge will do more for you than a little extra survivability from demo resilience. Besides, a lot of well gear sl/sl locks don't even put points into demonic resilience anymore at level 70. Some of them don't even do demonic knowledge. They put points into empowered corrption, imp Curse of Agony, imp CoW or Shadow Mastery.

Over time you're probably going to have to spend a little gold tweaking your sl/sl spec to suit your playstyle and gear.