Currently (0/21/40) tired, is change a bad idea?

[Torlon]

Quick background; Small guild, work, kids etc keep me from going further into T-5 etc raids, as it stands now Im usually second on dps meters and overall damage (full epic geared hunter is first, wish i could soul shatter more often) kara, ZA, etc.

1156 spelldmg , 20 crit (5% not showing from devestation) 155 hit (yes I know 200, webstats data shows i have a miss rating of 2-3% on a full kara, i can live with that at the moment) You can check out the rest of my gear at The World of Warcraft Armory

Ok the real question;

It's not that im tired of spaming SB during boss fights, I guess even after getting ganked, jumped, camped etc as a destro on a pvp server made me go afflic for a while and get my full s2 gear. However, as destro again, pvp really hasnt changed, my gear just makes me live longer before I drop.

People that would just melt away in my UA spec, are back to tearing me up again as Destro. Burst damage is great dont mind ya, but the lack of mobility, x2 terror spell, insta cast dots, etc makes it harder again. Felt like i just wasted my time in those BG's.

My guild dont "require" me to be destro, it's more of a self imposed thing. you know..if your gonna come to a raid, bring your big guns?

However when looking at overall damage on raids and heroics on affliction, because of trash mobs my overall damage droops a bit..

So heres my question to you all, since you probably have more knowledge on these forums.

Therorectically with this build, I can pump up the spell damage around 102 more points by droping in all +12spell damage gems, i'll take a loss in spell hit, some stamina, and some crit, but as afflic with suppression having 200 hit its not that important if i remember?

so that puts me around 1250 spell damage, then with raid buffs, (food, potion, oil, etc perhaps around 1320, then with darkmoon at full (boss fights that allow) 1400 +/- spell damage.

do you think that at that point I would be doing around the same damage in a UA spec as Im doing right now or does Crit and ruin really put a "ruin" on UA that much? or are we just talking 10dps (which is marginal imo for my casual self)

cause if so, if i could still remain a very close 2nd on the meters, and have a build that imo is much easier for me to pvp/pve on, I so much enjoy that more.

Thoughts?

[Theleb]

UA doesn't scale as well as a Shadowbolt with Shadow and Flame and tthe gap only increases as your gear improves. If you want a definitive answer, just plug your gear into the spreadsheet at WoW Warlock DPS Spreadsheet and see for yourself - just use the drop down menu in the DPS section to choose a build then you can add gems/enchants/gear as you wish in the Items section.

[badkarma138]

Originally Posted by Theleb

UA doesn't scale as well as a Shadowbolt with Shadow and Flame and tthe gap only increases as your gear improves. If you want a definitive answer, just plug your gear into the spreadsheet at WoW Warlock DPS Spreadsheet and see for yourself - just use the drop down menu in the DPS section to choose a build then you can add gems/enchants/gear as you wish in the Items section.

I don't believe the spreadsheet shows anything but boss fights now, correct? I could be wrong, it has been awhile since I looked at it, but since the OP was asking about trash as well...

No, you will never have the same dps on trash with an affliction build as you do with a 0/21/40 build, so overall at your gear level destro is going to outperform affliction, and probably by a pretty sizable margin. You could drop unstable affliction and take ruin instead, but you will still be 25% short on your shadow bolt damage when compared to a 0/21/40 spec (you get 20% to shadow balls from S&F + 15% from sac compared to just 10% in affliction tree). Since the vast majority of your DPS on trash is going to be shadow bolts, you can't keep up as affliction.

Having said that, affliction is not about trash DPS, it is more about boss DPS and utility. An affliction build is perfectly viable, and you will do plenty of damage in kara with it. I ran utility all the way through t5 content, and some of our early t6. we are only 4/9 BT and 4/5 MH, and I still will probably run a utility affliction build again when I get bored with the single finger mash play style. I am relatively certain that you will find people on these forums that are deep into T6 content (as far as early SW anyway) who still run affliction/utility.

[Zetra]

Well sounds more like you are just sick of just SB, SB, SB... etc.. which is understandable..

Since you are only raiding T5 content, SSC/TK at the highest I would really like to recommed trying out 6/44/11 (FG-specc). It gives you a bit more to do, and you will probably pass that hunter dps wise (including pet).

From my time in SSC/TK I was always FG-specc and it works really great... Now in BT/MH the focus is even bigger on DSP so I guess Im stuck with SB, SB, SB... etc

Another option to try out is the classic SM/ruin build, meaning you dont get UA and go for ruin insted, you can search this forum and find some topics on the matter UA vs Ruin.

Hope some of this helps you enjoy the game again...

/Zetra

[MGChongbro]

if you wanna be an unpopular dood then jump in my boat and go fullblooded afflict. i gotta tell the boiz that im fullblooded afflict and have never repecceded in my life. i gotta make them understand that prior to them blaming me about why my specc style dont work that i need to be SL/SL but then i already tolded them that im fullbloöded afflict and have never been respecceded. then they start tellin me that they can respecc my char for me with thier specc style. and that my style lickZ and that i need to go double Lick. or you can listen to them and go double Lick with each other in the arena.

[Theleb]

Please take the time to type in coherent english and avoid using Slang/Abbreviations/Vulgarity. This isn't the official forum and if you have something worthwhile to say then take the time to say it in a manner that is understandable.





*** Information added 2 Minutes and 52 Seconds later... ***

I don't believe the spreadsheet shows anything but boss fights now, correct? I could be wrong, it has been awhile since I looked at it, but since the OP was asking about trash as well...

Trash is merely a matter of playstyle changes. If you're affliction them multi-dotting and a minimal rotation yield far better results than a full spread of DoTs. The point about the spreadsheet was to underline the difference in DPS between the two in a "best case/worse case" scenario Of course the results are subject to change but the sheet provides an idea of the different between the two builds.

[Barkle]

I would certainly recommend giving a Felguard build a try. You can easily pump out the DPS at your content level with the Felguard, and it is definitely not a boring build.

Biggest recommendation for anyone going Felguard ... make yourself a macro to turn cleave on/off. Mages can bleat something awful about their sheep :P

[levinho]

If you are serious about raiding then you know that dps is basically your function and you are obliged to the other members of your raid to produce as much as possible. If the raid needs support then you spec into the required role and do your best. Overall, the 21/40 spec is the best spec for a raiding warlock once the stat requirements are satisfied.

I get tired of my spec as well and I spec into a 7/54 destro or a sl/sl spec for pvp just so I don't always sit there spamming the one button that does the most damage. Also, I usually throw points into immolate and emberstorm for my raid spec in order to have a little more balance for pvp when I'm not raiding and too broke/lazy to respec.

If you really don't enjoy pvp as your raid spec then I highly suggest you consider the viability or respecs now that you can do 25 dailies. It takes maybe 30 mins to do the dailies on the Isle and you get around 200 gold. If you do that once a week then your respec to and from pvp spec is covered. (The only issue I see is how often you want to pvp vs. raid schedule.)

[Barkle]

Originally Posted by levinho

If you are serious about raiding then you know that dps is basically your function and you are obliged to the other members of your raid to produce as much as possible. If the raid needs support then you spec into the required role and do your best. Overall, the 21/40 spec is the best spec for a raiding warlock once the stat requirements are satisfied.

/false

A well played, equally geared Felguard warlock can, has, and does out damage an 0/21/40 SB spammer at T5 gear levels.

[Torlon]

Thank you for all your replies and help;

One quick thing I forgot to mention, seems most of our paladins are on vaction, gone, etc, so not having salvation alot of times with my current build/spec is painful. Creating 13k threat even when being carefull isnt all that uncommon 5k SB, followed by a 8k ISB crit, then a 500 proc from my necklace followed by a freebie bolt from the timbals crystal = a soulshatter. Even when I had the 2% enchant on the cloak. hmm need to pug more paladins...

dont have that problem at all on afflic or when i go crazy and do a FG spec.

Theleb- Thats what I thought, I totally forgot about that spreadsheet, I used it while tracking my Destro gear building. Thanks for the remind. I'll try my idea's when i get home from work out on paper before resocketing etc.

badkarma138- I keep trying to remind myself, but always forget to reset recount on the boss fights. Just to track how my afflic vs destro is doing JUST on boss fights.
Not to mention just reminding myself , trash is trash, boss's is where I usualy shine, but man i need to ignore that dropp in overall damage =P.

Zetra- Well it's not that im sick of it really, i mean, after all, imo it's easy street compared to the other specs..one button...i can eat dinner and kill bosses with one clicky. It's more of the lack of defense utility outside the raid that burns me. On pvp server I dont mind casaul or even the hardcore groups that roam around, with affliction 1vs1 or even 1vs2 I can have a pretty good chance. Destro..im a sitting duck even with shadowburn, deathcoil and fear. I'd only respec SL/SL if I was going to do arena's, which currently I have no plans. I'm going to give Thelebs spredsheet a whirl and see if by upping my spelldmg 200+ I can maintain "near" my current levels. I doubt it, but i think the pay off of when im not raiding will make up for it, even if i drop to "gasp" third in overall raid runs, but long as i stay 1-2nd on boss kills.

Barkle- I tried the last week in a few variant standard FG builds, with my raid gear and with my s2 gear..granted the bugger gets alot more hp's, armor from the S2 gear, and his attack power was 1100 with my spell damage, 9k hp's and I cant remember his AC. (I do remember making a void walker with 12k armor anyway...) Overall in the heroics, normals and only had time to do one kara, The hunters pet alone out does Haatom, and outlasted him and if i added my damage with pet and the hunters with pet, he still came above me by a good margin. I think i need gear that supports more of the demo build.

levinho- Basically you just recited my mantra. Which is great, but i've realized, I've hit a plateu with my current guild, and doubt unless i change guilds I'll see anymore then we're farming at the moment. Only thing keeping me there is long time friends and well then again, the fact thier "layed-back" raids, works for my busy RL. I feel im just getting bored of bringing the same "mantra" to the things we do everyday.

My problem is can I work an UA build that would keep me near the same, dont have to be exact or better, but then how much spelldmg would equate?

This way I can have a spec thats good in raids, and not so frustrating in world pvp on a pvp server.

Just to give you an idea on how my daily's, espeacially if I go to "sungank island" on most pvp, other then really on-top-of thier game skilled mages, rogues. or when it's 5vs1 Usually the only trump for me is the beastial rage BM hunter, got to out live that beastial rage..if not, im toast.

Remember my hunter friend who always beats me in raid damage..

With affliction spec..I get him down to 2k hp's before loosing to beastial rage and his insane dps. However without beastial rage (by request) I drop him no probs at half health.

With destro spec...I die before evening doing 700hp's damage with beastial rage,, and without beastial rage, i die before doing 2k hps damage.

I've got alot of work to try out on paper, I'll come back and let you know how it all goes. I thank all your guys wonderfull help and insight has been great.

I'll try a few things on paper, and if it seems possible i'll give it a go. maybe i can have my cake and eat it too.

*** Information added 268 Minutes and 14 Seconds later... ***

Just a quick update, after tossing in the numbers into the DPS spreadsheet

came up with the following (note probably not 100%accurate)

With my current gear set up;

0/21/40 with felhunter sac'd for long mana fights 1457 dps
0/21/40 with Succubus sac'd 1597 dps
44/0/17 1500 dps..hmm 97 dps drop and more mobility in pvp...
43/18/0 1364 dps

Replacing all gems and replacing with Runed ornate rubies(+12spdmg)

43/18/0 1400 dps
44/0/17 1539.3 dps
now I checked the 0/21/40 with succubus sac'd but at this point ive dropped to 101 spell hit, however the spreadsheet is showing me at
1602 dps?? thats more then I am currently.. can that be possible? cause heck on attuma alone if im below 120 spell hit, he resists like a bugger