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July 17, 2007, 10:47 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Too much emphasis on damage meters?
Greetings once again. I've read a bit on this forum about damage meters and their importance as well as the negative effects they can have in an instance. I don't often use them, but then again I dont' often run instances or even many group quests. Now that I'm level 64 that's beginning to change. And yes, I know I'm a little late in just starting to learn how to work with groups and run instances. A couple nights ago I ran Scholo for part of my dreadsteed quest. I know level 64 is a little late to be running scholo and a little late to work on my dreadsteed, but I'm more interested in leveling and have just worked on the mount a little here and there. No sense in halting the leveling while gathering mats. Anyway, I ran the instance with a 70 feral druid, 61 ice mage, 59 rogue, and 60 holy paladin. Good group. The 70, who was the tank, was actually #1 in damage. The 61 mage came in 2nd, and I was 3rd. We were all around 26-27%, with only about 20,000 points separating #1 from #3. Over the course of the entire instance that really isn't much at all. I have no problem with the 70 finishing at the top, even though they were tanking. And honestly I don't even mind the mage finishing higher than me, even though they were 3 levels lower. The tank said the mage would never have been able to do that kind of damage if we had a lower tank in there who couldn't hold aggro as well. Even still, I don't care. I didn't sit there and try to do damage with every single cast. I probably had 5-7 CoDooms that didn't run out, so there's several thousands of damage I could have done had I used Curse of Agony instead. And I also made sure to hit every single caster with CoTongues, which I know helped us numerous times. If each of those were Curse of Agony that's many thousand more damage. At 64 with my gear and talents my Curse of Agony probably does around 1,700 damage if my calculations are correct. That's not counting when I pop a trinket. I guess my point is that I know I could have topped the damage charts, but I feel that I was much more useful to my group being 3rd in damage than if I was 1st. Pulling aggro from the tank was rarely an issue, especially with affliction. Sure, I had some nightfall procs here and there, and even had a crit for over 4000 once (That was my first crit for over 2000 actually. Huge jump with Outlands gear), but I could count one one hand how many times I pulled aggro and still have some fingers left over. |
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July 17, 2007, 10:56 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
For me topping in damage is very important, but filling your role is more important, if you are the CoS/CoE lock you dont ditch that for CoD unless all the other casters die or something like that. That said, living its a big part of doing damage, so survive>casting in almost every fight, if you have to move, bandage, soul shatter, even drain life to stay alive, do so, dont try to get that last spell off and die. |
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July 17, 2007, 11:01 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Themorrigan 70 Human Warlock Kil'Jaeden US PvP Guild: The Collective Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/0/0 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
Topping damage meters in 5 man instances isn't important. Topping damage meters in 25 man raids is - many bosses have enrage timers or other mechanics where they have to be killed as quickly as possible. The problem is when people confuse their roles in different sizes of instances. |
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July 17, 2007, 11:05 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Majestrix 80 Human Warlock Kargath US PvE Guild: Keepers of the Old Ways Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 1/55/15 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
In my guild we tend to have a lot of chatter when it comes to the damage meters and who is on top, but when all is said and down staying alive and killing the boss is the top priority. When we assign roles people accept them without bitching they will lose DPS and when things come apart mid fight, people adapt and do what needs to be done to kill the boss... When our usual dps leader (another warlock) got tagged with the little red riding debuff nearly every time in a big bad wolf fight we all made fun of him that we beat him in damage, but realistically his skill at kiting the wolf allowed the rest of us to dish out max damage to get above him. Maj
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Maj |
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July 17, 2007, 11:05 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
you don't have to worry about damage meters till you turn 70. it's a mistake to think you have to sacrifice high dps for utility functions like CoT, if you are good player you can provide utility and still do good damage. Also in the raid instances pretty much everything is immune to most of our utility spells |
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July 17, 2007, 11:17 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Geckothaan 80 Human Warlock Frostmane Euro PvP Guild: Security Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 56/0/15 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
I don't think I have anything to say that hasn't already been mentioned, but damagemeters aren't so important in 5-mans as the fights are rarely very DPS intensive, however when you're raiding you'll find it a whole lot more important. DPS intensive fights like Gruul and the warlock phase of Magtheridon require every DPS'er to be aiming for #1 to succeed. Gruul generally gets easier the more competitive the DPS'ers get over the damagemeters. |
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July 18, 2007, 09:43 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Debuff 80 Orc Warlock Sargeras US PvP Guild: Fenrir Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
Quote:
Like people mentioned before, the heavy-duty raiders are the one's that really have to be concerned with damage meters. Enrage timers, enrage phases, and healer mana are all things that put a hypothetical timer on a fight. In order for a raid to finish an encounter within that timer, the dps usually has to be operating at 100% dps. If you've ever watched a video of a nihilum fight from their warlocks point of view, you will see him burn death coil every time its on cooldown, shadowburn everytime its on cooldown, mana potions every time they are on cooldown. These, to some extent, are what it takes to beat some of the high end raid bosses. Utility is easy to figure out in a raid. One person is on each of the necessary curses and the rest of the people use CoD. That leaves plenty of time for the dps classes to perfect their dps and thats why damagemeters are important. That being said, the other group, are the people that aren't end game raiders and gloat about their damage in the latest botanica run or scholo run. They don't care about providing perfect utility to their group, just raw damage. And you're right, these people are out of line. So in summary, raiders are justified in obsessing over DM, but outside of raiding, there are probably more important things to group success. |
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July 18, 2007, 09:54 AM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
I don't care if I'm first or fourteenth on the damagemeters provided our guild downs whatever boss we are facing. I do care if I'm not giving my all to help down the boss though, and doing massive amounts of damage is one of the best things I can offer. If I'm doing the best I can and I'm being killed on damagemeters by some Rogue or Hunter, then I'm just glad that we have their DPS contributing to the guild. Obsessing over #1 is kind of silly anyway, since different classes/specs will shine in different fights. I've got an unfair advatage with my Affliction spec on Gruul (DoTs keep ticking while everybody is stoned) that easily keeps me at #1 or #2 on the charts. Other fights, such as Shade of Aran, cater to the Rogues/Hunters.
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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey |
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July 18, 2007, 10:31 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Kiralyn 80 Human Warlock Mal'Ganis US PvP Guild: Self Titled Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0.13.58 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
I use damage meters extensivly, but not to see how I stack up against the other 'locks and mages. I use them to look at what I'm doing. What my resist rates are, which spells are doing the most damage for my mana investment, and things of that nature. Overall damage is important, and useful, but there are a lot of other good things to be learned. Also note that while not advanced very far in raiding (gruul) I consider myself a fairly hardcore raider, so this stuff is important, and not in an e-peen way.
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Hell, it's about time. -Tychus Findlaw |
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July 18, 2007, 10:35 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Duckie 70 Undead Warlock Stormrage Euro PvE Guild: Elitism Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/31/40 |
Re: Too much emphasis on damage meters?
Agree with Newfie: Being number 1, 2 or whatever number is not important. You goal as a group is to get the boss down and do it asap. So if that means that my roll as being supportive to other people and enable them to do more damage and me less is benefitting the raid, then I will do it without any thought. But being a dps monster in my I also like to be on top (atleast high) on the damage lists even with supportive roles, so I do whatever I can to optimise my dps to the max, dot multiple tanked targets and perfect my casting sequences so far that I will end up as high as I can. Sidenote is that I have malediction and I always cast CoS and CoE because of that and end up mostly within top 5. I just try to be on top of things all the time. For example on Kael wipes yesterday I noticed I ended up first on the damagelist with 3 broken items ;) Warlocks can do wonders on multiple targets if you think it over well and know how far you can go with aggro and multiple targets. I call it "living on the edge" |
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