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| Spells, Talents, Pets and DPS Discussion DoT's and Curses and Nukes, oh my! Discussion threads on everything relating to the Warlocks Spells, Talents, Pets and DPS. |
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November 07, 2007, 05:42 PM
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#11 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
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This is the build I usually raid with: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMrmMctVtcocZxx0xM I'm bringing utility to the raid with 5/5 Shadow Embrace, 3/3 Malediction, and 3/3 Improved Imp, and I have all the important talents for DPSing. The 0/21/40 Locks in our guild spec for 1/2 and 2/2 Improved Healthstone, so it's desirable for me to be 0/2. The only talent I miss is Shadowburn, but it only helps with trash and adds anyway. I've found I can easily live without it. Some Affliction talents I don't take: Suppression (I'm hit capped from gear) Improved Curse of Agony (if you spec Malediction you will be doing CoS/CoE pretty much exclusively) Amplify Curse (same as last, I never get to CoD) Curse of Exhaustion (our guild isn't on Vashj yet, I'll take this talent once I need it) Nightfall (very slight DPS increase, only take it if you have points to spare) Edit: Fel Concentration lets me easily farm with my raid spec and can actually be useful in boss fights with AoE. Drain Life might not be as effective for DPS as Shadow Bolt, but it's an excellent method of self-healing when your HS/Pots are on cooldown.
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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey Last edited by NewfieDave; November 07, 2007 at 05:46 PM.. |
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November 07, 2007, 05:49 PM
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#12 (permalink) |
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Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
I am 43/0/18. Our top dpsing Warlock is the same. His gear is lightly better with more crit. A well played affliction lock is a thing of beauty, and rarity. I posted in the WoW forums why it's mathematically foolish for an Affliction specced all the way to UA to spec Malediction and I will here. I gimped my own DPS quite a bit, and, hurt the raid dps as well. The 3 points in Malediction take 3 very valuable points from somewhere. Let's see what 3 additional % is... On void reaver and gruul, a fight which requires alot of movement and headsup awareness, curses can win the day for dps. Many times I've been on VR, only to have successive Orbs thrown at me, preventing ANY Sb's, Ua's, Or Immolates. Moreover, because he is mechanical, SL is a lost dot. So for that fight alone, a Destro lock is better off applying the 10% malediction, than an affliction lock. VR has 4,750,000 health points... 10% = 475,000 3% = 142500 Whether your raid gets value from that 3% depends on how many arcane mages, shadow priests and warlocks you bring. For 1 warlock to use Malediction spec points, means you need 142,500 more damage from those who would benefit from the increase. Now, our dps who would benefit from Malediction did around 700 (some at 900, some at 500). We had about 5 warlocks, 2 mages, no shadow priests. 700dpsx 540 seconds (9minutes) = 378000 damage/player 3% of 378000 = 11340 points. 11340 x 7 players = 79380. At 900 dps x 540 seconds = 486000 3% of 486000 = 14580 14580 x 7 = 102060 NOW...Curse of Agony lasts 24 seconds and my TOTAL DR DAMAGE Expected with 1200 shadow damage BUFFED and 195 spell hit is atbou 4900. 540 second fight/25.5 (duration plus gcd) - 21 applications of Curse of Agony. 21 x 4900 = 102900 Accordingly, CoD does MORE damage and is easier to apply as a DOT since it doesn't burn as many gcds. Also MY Curse of Agony, is not AMPED, so that 4900, could be much more, putting me at 120,130,or 140k. With a shadow priest in the raid, the possibilities are ENDLESS. Moreover, if you have another affliction lock putting up malediction, then odds are you're losing 240000 damage from 2 players alone, to buff several others. The bigger issue, especially on raids like Gruul and VR is the reality of SILENCES. A locks curse ticks while silenced, destro bolts don't. If you have players getting silenced on VR and the affliction lock is taking the hit by putting up the CoS, then you're HOPING those players who are benefitting as casters are doing their best and NOT getting silenced. Additionally, in gruul its unavoidable, and so the ticks at least help get you through them and doing damage when you can't. Many of the raids in OL require much movement and coordination, so gimping the primary damage dealer of an aff lock...CoD or Curse of Agony, but having them put up Malediction/CoS means a huge loss in dps. It isn't the huge benefit that is portrayed unless you carry TONS of locks and priests and mages, which means using LOTS of debuff slots as well. I made the same post to my guild and they are on board to let the Destro locks do at least COS, and COE if possible. Those 3 points enables you to use suppression to fill the hit cap, get grim reach, and the 18+ points in Destro needed. Yes, I did IMPCOA, there's 2 improved talents for it, why not? When CoD/Amp is on cd I can use it. I am still testing the rotation and dps it provides. If you're on your game, AMP/COD then Curse of Agony+Curse of Agony is a nice rotation and would do 20k+ in 2 minutes, depending on gear. Moreover, Curse of Agony is the longest dot next to SL we have, wouldn't it make sense to use it for raiding and filling CoD? It lasts 24 seconds and only ticks for more at the end. In raids, most mobs won't last 18 seconds, which is why UA/IMMOLATE/CORRUPTION go up. I've never done destro, but things I've learned from speccing affliction... **jam your sockets with spell hit, and only go for the socket bonus if it's spell it or spell damage. I'm at 195, with only 7 til max hitcap. I'm on the cusp of gear that will allow me to replace gems with damage and crit gems instead of spell hit. **get a rotation you like. there's many out there. no one best one works. try it on dr boom. i've tested at around 700-800, and the guild locks who are at 800-900 have slightly better gear at critical points, OR have higher crit. *crit matters, but at 3rd position. first spell hit, then damage, then crit. b/c shadowbolts are about 40% of a raiding locks dps, it doesn't hurt to have crit rating. experiment. the 5% from destro, can mean alot. the locks that are affliction i see who put out alot of dps have about 15% base crit, 5% from destro. bolts and immolates hit harder. i won't get into immolate vs not casting it. dpct says so at my point, 980 shadow (without fel armor) 195 hit. |
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November 07, 2007, 06:19 PM
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#13 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
@Arkanius: I don't follow your logic about Malediction... For starters, there simply aren't any better talents available for me to take instead of Malediction. It's not 3 wasted points for me, it's the best choice to put 3 points on the way to UA. Second, using a single fight to prove a spec/talent's validity is simply wrong. You only prove it is valid for that one fight. Third, your math is kind of sketchy. It's like you proved it backwards. Instead of working back from Void Reaver's hitpoints, think about it like this: You agree that CoS/CoE are essential (which they are provided there are at least two sources of the appropriate damage in the raid). So two Locks are going to be casting these, and any additional Locks will be casting CoD (proven to be better than Curse of Agony on boss fights). The difference between Affliction Locks and Destro Locks with regards to CoD is simply Amplify Curse, which only applies to one-third of your CoD's. That equates to +16.67% damage to your CoD's. Compare the benefit of +16.67% damage on a single DoT to +3% damage to all shadow/arcane or fire/frost damage sources in the raid. Malediction wins. The only reason to not spec Malediction is if you selfishly prefer personal DPS to raid DPS. (or if you have 2 Locks in your guild who have taken it already)
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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey Last edited by NewfieDave; November 07, 2007 at 06:25 PM.. |
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November 07, 2007, 09:03 PM
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#14 (permalink) | ||
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Character Info
Nagashe 70 Undead Warlock Cenarion Circle US RP Guild: Night Watch Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
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5/5 suppression is a must Improved CoR is going to add damage and is much better choice than destructive reach. A 41 point affliction build should hardly be casting any destruction spells unless he needs to burn something down in a hurry. Fel concentration is kind of a wasted talent And Nightfall is the cornerstone of any good affliction build. |
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November 07, 2007, 09:11 PM
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#15 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Themorrigan 70 Human Warlock Kil'Jaeden US PvP Guild: The Collective Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
Siphonheart, you're giving really, really bad advice. 5/5 Suppression isn't necessary if you have good gear, which he has (he stated he's already hit capped). Putting points in Suppression if you're already hit capped is giving you ABSOLUTELY no return on those points. Nightfall is not a huge DPS increase, nor the "cornerstone" of any good Affliction build. Improved CoR isn't a talent. A 41 point Affliction build casts plenty of Shadow Bolts if they're playing correctly and maximizing their DPS. |
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November 07, 2007, 09:45 PM
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#16 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
/agree with doogless
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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey |
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November 07, 2007, 09:59 PM
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#17 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Nagashe 70 Undead Warlock Cenarion Circle US RP Guild: Night Watch Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
Quote:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...n&n=Wayneyoung He has greens and blues. If he was in blues and purples, he wouldn't be asking for help here. If he is hit capped then 5/5 is not needed at all. Nightfall along with improved Improved Shadowbolt IS the cornerstone of any good Afflic build. Like it or not. During the duration of a battle, it procs often enough to warrant putting 2/2 there. replace CoR with Curse of Agony. This is what I get for typing at work  My advise is sound. So instead of flaming, next time try to be constructive. These aren't the Wow boards. |
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November 07, 2007, 10:22 PM
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#18 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Conchrot 70 Undead Warlock Anub'arak US PvP Guild: Revolving Door Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
@Siphonheart: I'm pretty sure doogless was defending my personal spec, which you described as "not a solid, pure Affliction build." I am hit capped. If you aren't, then adjust the spec appropriately. Affliction requires adjusting for everybody, because it heavily depends on what talents other Locks in your guild have already taken. I'm not sure where, but somewhere on these forums the math was worked out on Nightfall and it adds a very marginal amount of DPS. This is because of the random proc off Corruption only (you shouldn't be using Drain Life as a source of DPS) and the fact that you are really only shaving 1 second off the Shadow Bolt cast time because of the global cooldown. On average, you are only going to see it proc 2-3 times during a boss fight (perhaps more if the fight is really long). Nightfall is a great talent for PvP because of the potential for burst damage and casting on the run, but it's easily expendable in PvE. Improved Curse of Agony is - IMO - the biggest waste of talent points in the whole Affliction tree. Again, it has been proven that CoD is ALWAYS better than Curse of Agony on boss fights (unless the boss only has less than a minute left to live). I don't spec for trash. If you're taking Malediction then it's an even bigger waste of talent points. I wouldn't put points in Fel Concentration if there was something better to spend it on, but there isn't. Less chance of my Drain Life being interrupted by AoE/random whatever when I'm helping the healers out by self-healing is more helpful to me than buffing curses I don't use.
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"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey |
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November 07, 2007, 11:21 PM
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#19 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Themorrigan 70 Human Warlock Kil'Jaeden US PvP Guild: The Collective Profile: Blizzard Armory |
Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
The blanket defense of "these aren't the WoW boards" any time someone disagrees with you is really lame. I didn't say "you're an idiot," I said "your advice is wrong," and I gave specific reasons why I believed that to be the case. I assumed you were referring to NewfieDave, as you were quoting him. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying. Check the DPS spreadsheet at http://www.leulier.com/ - Nightfall is not huge DPS increase. ISB/Bane are, but Nightfall really is not a huge factor over a long fight. You don't use Curse of Agony against bosses because using CoD is higher DPS. As such, improving Curse of Agony makes no sense. Last edited by doogless; November 08, 2007 at 10:58 AM.. |
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November 08, 2007, 08:50 AM
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#20 (permalink) |
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Re: Affliction Build Combinations - Whats better?
What would make you pick 43/7/11 over 43/0/18? The few points in demo only seem to help out the health area. By putting those points in destro, you increase your dps and lower your threat. Unless you really need the stam for pvp, I see no good reason to waste points for something we can regain so quickly. |
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