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Spells, Talents and DPS Discussion DoT's and Curses and Nukes, oh my! Discussion threads on everything relating to the Warlocks Spells, Talents and DPS.

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January 13, 2008, 08:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
zeross Character Info zeross 70 Undead Warlock Sargeras US PvP Guild: exile Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Your Casting Sequence i keep seeing eveyone saying to (or that they) casts ua 1st (not that it's wrong), i always drop corr 1st just due to the nightfall proc chance (i'm refering to people with aff builds btw).

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January 13, 2008, 10:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Turmeric Character Info Turmeric 70 Gnome Warlock Aszune Euro PvE Guild: Origin Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Your Casting Sequence UA has a cast time of 1.5 seconds and last 18seconds. Corr is instant cast with a 1.5 sec global cooldown and lasts 18 seconds. Corr > UA means UA is applied approx 3 secs after Corruption, both lasting 18 secs. UA > Corr means that UA and Corr are applied (almost) the same time, both lasting 18 secs. Doing UA first means you can effectively manage the 2 of them combined as 1 dot, and simplifies your renewals considerably. Whilst theorycrafting says its the same DPS in reality its just easier to manage that way. The nightfall proc effect you mention is negligible as its effectively a 1.5 second headstart on Corruption ticking and, assuming you keep Corruption up all the time will only mean a tiny benefit over even a short fight.

January 14, 2008, 11:33 AM

#13 (permalink)

zeross

Character Info
zeross
70 Undead Warlock
Sargeras US PvP
Guild: exile
Profile: Blizzard Armory

Re: Your Casting Sequence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turmeric

UA has a cast time of 1.5 seconds and last 18seconds. Corr is instant cast with a 1.5 sec global cooldown and lasts 18 seconds.

Corr > UA means UA is applied approx 3 secs after Corruption, both lasting 18 secs.
UA > Corr means that UA and Corr are applied (almost) the same time, both lasting 18 secs.

Doing UA first means you can effectively manage the 2 of them combined as 1 dot, and simplifies your renewals considerably. Whilst theorycrafting says its the same DPS in reality its just easier to manage that way.

The nightfall proc effect you mention is negligible as its effectively a 1.5 second headstart on Corruption ticking and, assuming you keep Corruption up all the time will only mean a tiny benefit over even a short fight.

good points though with corr it can be used on the move and the 1st tick comes up faster due to the lack of cast time(again, when speced for it), the 1.5 sec gcd then 1.5 cast on ua gives corr a 3 sec headstart. the other way around corr would only be 1.5 sec behind ua but your 1st tick of damage would hit 1.5 sec later.

edit: i also tend to think more from a pvp standpoint, ya never know when your gonna get cc'ed so starting damage asap is better. though cc goes on in pve too...

Last edited by zeross; January 14, 2008 at 11:50 AM..

January 14, 2008, 12:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
Malrath Character Info Malrath 70 Undead Warlock Malfurion US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 42/8/11	Re: Your Casting Sequence I have been spec'd Affliction my entire Warlock career, and currently running Kara. I would highly suggest the following Casting Sequence for ANY raiding Affliction Warlock that has about the same +spell dam as +shadow dam: Curse of Agony > UA > Corr > SiLi > Immo If your +shadow dam is much higher (> 100) then you should just leave off Immo. You could be casting an additional SB and doing more Shadow damage than if you tried to reapply Immo. I find with the above sequence (especially without Immo) you will have your DoTs expire pretty much at the same time. Corr first, then UA, then SiLi. This is probably a no-no, but what I do is reapply Corruption, reapply UA, and then immediately reapply SiLi (even though it has more time left). This is so that I can freely do SB spam until the next reapply. I reapply Curse of Agony as needed. In a 25-man raid, usually CoS or CoE is better. Decide which one based on how many mages, warlocks, and shadow priests you have. Even though your individual dps goes down the raid dps goes up. Think of the raid, not just yourself!

January 15, 2008, 08:33 AM

#15 (permalink)

Turmeric

Character Info
Turmeric
70 Gnome Warlock
Aszune Euro PvE
Guild: Origin
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 0/21/40

Re: Your Casting Sequence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malrath

I have been spec'd Affliction my entire Warlock career, and currently running Kara. I would highly suggest the following Casting Sequence for ANY raiding Affliction Warlock that has about the same +spell dam as +shadow dam:
Curse of Agony > UA > Corr > SiLi > Immo

If your +shadow dam is much higher (> 100) then you should just leave off Immo. You could be casting an additional SB and doing more Shadow damage than if you tried to reapply Immo.

I find with the above sequence (especially without Immo) you will have your DoTs expire pretty much at the same time. Corr first, then UA, then SiLi. This is probably a no-no, but what I do is reapply Corruption, reapply UA, and then immediately reapply SiLi (even though it has more time left). This is so that I can freely do SB spam until the next reapply. I reapply Curse of Agony as needed.

In a 25-man raid, usually CoS or CoE is better. Decide which one based on how many mages, warlocks, and shadow priests you have. Even though your individual dps goes down the raid dps goes up. Think of the raid, not just yourself!

Hopefully I won't come across as arrogant and rude, but almost everything you've mentioned in this post is incorrect or misleading. In this same thread, on page 1, I posted some hints and tips that have been endlessly theorycrafted by many people cleverer than me that show that some of the things you highly suggest are not optimal.

If immolate runs its course, its is better DPS than a shadowbolt unless shadow damage is 400+ fire, or your crit rate is 40%+. (rough numbers)
Dots expiring at the same time is a bad thing. It might be easier to track, but its worse DPS. Tracking and renewing many dots is what makes affliction a challenge.
NEVER redo a dot that hasn't expired. Bad DPS, waste of mana.

Your point on CoS/CoE is correct although I use a simple "more than 1 rule" so if there is a Kara with 2 locks and a Spriest then one of the locks should be on CoS.

Again, sorry if this is overly harsh-sounding but its important in my mind at least that we aim for the best we can be, despite complexity. Your advice seems to over-simplify affliction so you can spam SB's in a longer run. If thats your bag, go Destro

January 15, 2008, 08:45 AM	#16 (permalink)
Darkzor Character Info Friet 70 Orc Warlock Dentarg Euro PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 24/37/0	Re: Your Casting Sequence cause i'm SL/SL my sequence is : corruption ==> Curse of Agony ==> SL ==> immolate ==> incina-erate

January 15, 2008, 05:14 PM

#17 (permalink)

Malrath

Character Info
Malrath
70 Undead Warlock
Malfurion US PvE
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Spec: 42/8/11

Re: Your Casting Sequence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turmeric

If immolate runs its course, its is better DPS than a shadowbolt unless shadow damage is 400+ fire, or your crit rate is 40%+. (rough numbers)
Dots expiring at the same time is a bad thing. It might be easier to track, but its worse DPS. Tracking and renewing many dots is what makes affliction a challenge.
NEVER redo a dot that hasn't expired. Bad DPS, waste of mana.

I don't get upset at people being critical of my opinions, especially if they are trying to help the original poster out and clarify what I'm saying. People are entitled to their opinions. No offense taken.

And I was wrong about my cast sequence. I mixed two of them around.
Curse > Corr > UA > SiLi > Immo

The only DoT I reapply too soon is SiLi. I may not have been clear but when you use this sequence Corruption ends first followed shortly by UA. Corruption can be reapplied immediately when it expires and you can be casting UA before it expires and by the time you are done casting it has fully expired.

I fully agree, that normally you should not reapply a DoT before it expires. You are hurting your DPS if you do it. I make an exception for SiLi because I've got it bound with Corruption as a /castsequence macro and I'm lazy. Overall SiLi is the least of my DoTs and it doesn't affect it that much.

I will stand by my statement about Immo. I don't have the exact numbers, but I know that in general if your +shadow dam is much higher than +spell/fire dam then you should just leave it off. Having a high crit rating would favor SB, but I'm not even arguing that. I have left off Immo from my rotation and I've enjoyed a slight increase in DPS. I've found that in general you are talking about ~10dps difference including/excluding Immolate from your routine. You can either trust the mathematics or you can experiment for yourself and determine what's best. In either case it's not a large difference.

I don't understand how I came across as over-simplifying Affliction, or that how I can be called a SB-spammer. About 40% of your total damage comes from Shadow Bolt as an affliction raider, and I'm only talking about boss fights. People deal with trash mobs differently depending on the group make-up they have. After applying DoTs I have time for about 3 or 4 SBs before I have to start reapplying DoTs. Call that SB spamming if you want, but it's how you do damage in a raid.

I have thought about going Destro, and from a purely selfish point of view it is one of the most devastating builds you can make as a warlock. Spike damage is awesome, and you will top most of the charts no doubt.

But I enjoy being Affliction, have always been Affliction, and will probably always be Affliction. I like providing Blood Pact with my Imp, Shadow Embrace to help mitigate a tiny bit of damage, and Malediction for CoS/CoE. I play the way I do because it's what I've learned over the past year. I've played Affliction the entire time, tried out several different things, listened to many good posters on this forum and others, and participated in the Warlock community. You don't have to agree with it, but if you have something constructive to add that will help me out that's great please do!

January 17, 2008, 06:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
punkrockrobot Character Info Soullove 70 Human Warlock Laughing Skull US PvP Profile: Talent Spec: 44/1/16	Re: Your Casting Sequence Thanks guys. For those who are Destruction or Demo i'd be interested in seeing your casting sequence. Maybe this can become the official unofficial Casting Sequence Thread

January 29, 2008, 02:46 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rutiene Character Info Luxury 80 Blood Elf Warlock Deathwing US PvP Guild: Addiction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/0/17	Re: Your Casting Sequence Afflic Lock cast sequence: Corr / Curse / SL / UA / Immo -> SB while refresh all dots except for Immo until the last 40 seconds of the fight where you shouldn't refresh anything except Corru, which you should refresh until the last 20 seconds of the fight. Shadowburn of course at 3k HP on the boss.

January 29, 2008, 06:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
Looo Character Info Balthezaar 70 Human Warlock Shadowmoon US PvP Guild: Upset Talent Spec: 7/5/49	Re: Your Casting Sequence As a destro lock, here is my cast sequence. Corr / Curse of Agony / Immo / sb / sb / sb / Conflag / shadow burn / restart with a nightfall proc, i usually get an xtra sb or incinerate if i feel like toasting his butt. Usually good for 500+ dps with no epic gear and no crits. Crits brings dps much higher. On Trash mobs, they are usually toast by 2nd sb, and i follow last sb with level 1 drain soul for 15% Mana bonus & shard. Conflag & Shadowburn are instant casts worth about 6k-7k with crits over 2 secs.

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