| Spells, Talents and DPS Discussion DoT's and Curses and Nukes, oh my! Discussion threads on everything relating to the Warlocks Spells, Talents and DPS. |
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January 14, 2009, 03:10 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Aff doesn't suck on trash
It really doesn't, I frankly don't know why I see so many posts here and on the official forums claiming as much. Trash pulls are played differently from bosses or "super trash..." My gear is SUB 10-man, just a couple of badge items and heroic drops (and 2 PVE items ((+hit)) gained from PVP) and I still top meters overall for heroics and 10-man Naxx unless I'm running with someone who outgears me and/or, (for an example I see a lot) a good DK. I do a lot of guild runs and even more PUG's (/sigh) sometimes with equal or even lesser-geared folks, and often times with folks from more advanced guilds that far outgear me. Maybe I'm running into bad/lazy players of other classes, but from what I've been seeing in Wrath of the Lich King heroics and my couple of Naxx-10 runs, only an equally-geared DK and sometimes hunter can beat me as on Afflock on overall (ie including the mostly trash fights) damage. Again, maybe it's a bad sampling, but it's a large and constant enough sampling that I'm pretty convinced of my premise here, and even if "my server sucks" (I don't think it does,) I think I've found some worthwhile tips for rocking the shorter fights that I think may be beneficial to some folks. On trash you should ONLY be using corruption / (maybe ((MAYBE)) ua,) / haunt and sb. and sb. and sb again. Remember that corruption can proc Eradication, which is REALLY your friend on trash pulls of 3 or more mobs, as you have a greater chance to throw off those fast SB's, which is actually your #1 priority on trash AFTER you figure out: #1 how long corr/ua will last vs an SB cast and, #2 how long immo (which benefits from haunt but NOT SM, Contagion, or all the Corr talents) will last. ALWAYS REMEMBER that a FULL TICK ua or immo is BETTER damage-per-cast-time than a SB, *BUT* a less-than-full-tick UA or Immo is LESS DPS than a cast and landed Shadowbolt. Here is the finesse you need to truly master your chosen class. Add an immo as lifetime of the mobs permits, subtract immo (1st) and UA (2nd) as lifetime doesn't permit their uptimes, etc. It gets easier and easier the more you run the same dungeons, as you'll get a better feel for how long certain mobs will live, and thus how best to maximize your approach (ua/immo vs corr and more sb, for example.) Note that on PUG's you'll also need a pull or two (or 3 or 4, teehee) to guage how quickly your gorup kills these mobs you're (hopefully)already familiart with and how well your tank holds aggro once you start dotting/nuking mobs beyond the "dps target." On longer (relatively speaking) living mobs always remember that UA > Immo due to SM and contagion...if it lives long enough for BOTH, throw both on, as immo has a > damage-per-cast-time than SB, and it's really all about how many sb spams we're going to sacrifice for a DOT and if it's worth it. The KEY, IMO, to succesfully playing an Affliction Warlock is to realize that you are (especialy on trash) a Shadowbolt spammer who also happens to priotitize DOT uptime on a mob depending upon how long it will (or will not!) live. On bosses we have a "rotation" and use shadowbolt as a "filler," whereas on trash we have shadowbolt/haiunt FIRST and use ONLY our "maximized" (i.e. those that work to full duration for greatest damage per GCD) DOTS as "filler." Mastering the difference dependiing upon mob is the key to success here. On multi-pulls (remember, you as an afflock are NOT spec'd to have great ROF's) I've gotten out of the habit of spamming SOC for the whole fight, and instead find a better return doing this: 1st mob (DPS target) This target you put your haunt on since you're unloading dots as it's the burn-down...the "burn down" typically in my experience (again, assuming NOT a 5-man overgeared team) living long enough for a full corr/ua/immo... So do a mini version of what you'd do on a boss...on a multi-pulls "skull" gets haunt/corr/ua/immo (again, drop immo FIRST as an option depending upon mob lifetime.) We leave out the SB on this mob as, again, it's a multi-pull, which I define as 3 or more mobs... we're trying to work FAST to load up and then burn down (via nukes) all 3+ mobs at once.. you've already given #1 +20% damage from your 3 DOTs + you know he's getting focus-fired by the group anyway.. So unload ASAP on #1, tab/click, hit #2 with ua/curr/sb, tab/click, hit #3 with ua/corr/immo, haunt should be about up (and #1 about or already dead) so throw it on #3 of you can. #3 will be close enough to death to not even get half the benefit of haunt, but haunt JUST came up, so you get it's max benefit per this timeframe AND a (albeit lowly) 1.5 sec nuke to a dying mob. I've played with throwing corr/ua on #1, then all other mobs with ua/SOC/immo, or ua/soc and only then doing the SOC/tab spam once all mobs have the ua on them, but as am yet unsure as to which method is better, but I belive the prior method actually beats soc spam unless there's a bunc of mobs...my (mathematically unconfrimed) rule of thumb is to just spam SOC if there's 4 or more mobs. Again, the more you do any given heroic the better you'll get at gauging what spells to use....some mobs I ONLY sb/haunt/searing pain (yes, afflock, use searing pain in heroics; when you see 1 mob left at 3k HP and being focus-fired what else are you going to do? 2k damage or NO damage?) but that's typically lower-hp single pulls. Like I said, I'm by no means "uber" (feel free to armory) but I still pull ahead as 56/0/15 on OVERALL (i.e. including trash) more often than not. Aff, IMO, is THE spec, because, contrary to popular lore, it rocks for trash as well as bosses. Yes, it truly shines the most on bosses, but it is FAR from subpar on trash if played well by someone who understands how to play it differently when mowing down said trash. You are more than your 3 insta hotkeys. Even on bosses, until you learn this you will always be out-DPS'd by other Warlocks, let alone other classes. Once you master this, however, you will get that warm feeling of being #1. Just my 2cp. PS - As an aside - When I spec demo or demo/destro hybrid I gain literally about 400 SP... and my Shadow bolts dont hit ANY harder. +% modifiers > + flat modifiers, AND they'll scale better with your gear as you gear up. Last edited by Thraxll; January 14, 2009 at 04:47 AM.. |
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January 14, 2009, 04:42 AM
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#2 (permalink) |
Status: Devourer of Gnomes
Character Info
Peligroso 80 Undead Warlock Stormreaver US PvP Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
I am an Affloc aswell. I have found my trash dps to be more then sub-par this is due to the fact that I run only guild runs and all the trash is usually dead in the time it takes me to post up Corruption and Haunt (yea they down most mobs in 2-3 seconds damned dks and retadins). I end up usually just either using SoC, Drain Soul (if I need shards), or good ole SB. I also tend to sometimes toss out CoE (its usually my designated curse especially in Naxx10 since im the only affloc there). You are right though if you do get a slower group which, which the other day I did (Druid heals, Prot Warrior, Frost mage, and 2 Afflocs) you can do decent on trash. It just has to last long enough for your dots do run a decent ammount otherwise its usually pointless to do anything on smaller pulls. |
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January 14, 2009, 04:46 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
I'd have to agree since I just dinged 75 and changed my rotation a bit for affliction. Granted I was in with a few levels below me but I could crank out around 800 dps, it really matters how quickly the mobs are going down and how you choose what to cast on. |
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January 14, 2009, 05:04 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
Yes, again you have to tune it per the group you're in, but on TRASH you should be an SB spammer FIRST and a DOTtter 2ND. All of our DOTS out DPCT nukes IF the run full effect...if they don't, you're better off nuking, especially with ISB. It's situational as to how best to play (1 dot/nuke vs 2-DOT nuke vs. 3-DOT nuke, etc) but IMO that's what makes it so fun to paly, and even funner to "win" ("top o the meters") No, we'll never ALWAYS top meters, even with the best of us competing, but we can do so more often than not, and IMO we should always shoot for that and share how we've best learned to do so with one another. Besides, I <3 Affliction and truly believe it to be the most powerful spec there is.. I'm proving it 1 Nathrezoid at a time.. Join mee.,...... :D |
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January 14, 2009, 05:12 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Mato 80 Blood Elf Warlock Gurubashi US PvP Guild: Blood Drunk Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 55/0/16 |
Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
Something that I've found to do near FG/ember damage is placing corruption on each mob and then using Rain of Fire. Any tank who knows what they are doing is constantly using aoe, because almost all classes use aoe on trash now. The only class that I have aggro trouble with when I do this is warrior tanks, because my corruptions tick for over 1k along with the rain of fire. Try it out though, you'll like it. |
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January 14, 2009, 04:16 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Tianshaan 80 Human Warlock Terokkar US PvE Guild: Vae Victus Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
Well, maybe for Aff, since just spamming RoF is better than DoTting up and then casting it - for me. Fire specced, you can maximize MC uptime by throwing Curse of Agony on 1 or 2 (not Corruption, as it ticks every 3 seconds). Last edited by TiaMaster; January 14, 2009 at 04:30 PM.. |
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January 14, 2009, 04:27 PM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
Quote:
The best thing I have found to do is drop an instant dot or two on the skull, then move on to the X. Plus this way, I have to occasionally watch my aggro. Fun! |
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January 14, 2009, 09:18 PM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Dirsan 80 Gnome Warlock Khadgar US PvE Guild: Beyond Thundergnome Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 2/13/56 |
Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
Yeah, I didn't even bother putting up DOT's on multi-trash pulls when I was affliction, by the time I put them up, they were all dead. Just Soc, Soc, Soc and call it a day. |
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January 15, 2009, 12:40 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
AFF IS PHAIL ON TRASH for aff to reach its maximum damage output it needs time, something that doesnt exist on trash. Other specs/classes dont need nearly as much time to start dishing out their maximum damage. |
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January 15, 2009, 02:01 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Typecast 70 Human Warlock Proudmoore US PvE Guild: Ruined Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/2/15 |
Re: Aff doesn't suck on trash
On AoE trash packs, I'll Curse of Agony/Corr the MT target, that gives me enough time to ensure that the trash has stacked up and has sufficient threat for me to shadowflame, teleport back, I'll seed once if MC isn't up, otherwise RoF. I only do this when there are 4+ trash mobs in a pack. Considering we pull as much as possible (faerlina's entire room + spider pack before the room is very common), single targeting mobs just doesn't happen much and doesn't require a full rotation. With MC in my affliction spec, the GCD used by haunt seems better used on a damage'ing spell (like Curse of Agony, which procs MC) and haunt would be better used as a 2.5k finisher. Anyone else haunt rats for free hp? |
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