| Spells, Talents and DPS Discussion DoT's and Curses and Nukes, oh my! Discussion threads on everything relating to the Warlocks Spells, Talents and DPS. |
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May 01, 2009, 03:45 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
I'm going to apologize if this should be somewhere else but because I'm not asking for help with my dps and it is more a theoretical I thought this might be the right place. Feel free to move it if you think it wrongly placed. I did search the forums too but I didn't really see anything of the sort, so again I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything posted prior that I might have missed. I'm posting this on wow forums too: I'm just curious as to why nobody seems to use soulfire in place of shadowbolt those times in the rotation where we actually have 4 sec to cast without refreshing dots? Is my math wrong here? I understood before where Haunt was a 20% buff before the patch but now? I know the importance of keeping up the improved shadowbolt debuff too so I'm not saying keep it out of your rotation, not at all. I'm just suggesting that we use soulfire where we can instead of a shadowbolt. As a side perk it's a convenient way to eliminate some soulshards which we would seldom use otherwise in combat and it's also much more mana efficient leading to fewer life taps. Thoughts? Am I wrong to assume that damage per cast time is the way to view effectiveness of direct damage spells? Proof: Shadow Bolt (naked so to speak) rank 13 690-770 shadow damage with a 2.5 sec cast time +15% Shadow Mastery = 793.5-885.5 +5% Improved SB = 881.475 d/ct= 881.475/2.5 = 352.6 Soulfire (also naked) rank 6 1323-1657 d/ct= 1490/4 =372.5 These are just averages assuming that done enough times it would come to these: With 10% crit *assuming 5/5 ruin SB 969.6=> 387.85d/ct SF 1639 => 409.75 d/ct 20% crit * ruin assumption SB 1057 => 422.8 d/ct SF 1788 => 447 d/ct So for scaling purposes @0% crit sb/sf =>352.6/372.5 = 94.7% @10% crit sb/sf =>387.85/409.75= 94.7% @20% crit sb/sf =>422.8/447= 94.7% So they seem to scale the same too with crit. I could do 30% crit too but how many aff-locks have that much crit? Does Soul Fire not scale as well with SP? Did I miss a buff for Shadowbolt? Ive gone through the aff talent tree 3 time now Feed back? *edit I forgot the improved shadow bolt buff which I have since amended |
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May 01, 2009, 04:13 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
Status: Darkbinder
Character Info
Aily 80 Human Warlock Doomhammer US PvE Guild: Arisen Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
Shadowbolt coefficient = 85.69% Soul Fire co = 115% So I dunno. I do know SB gets another +12% below 35% but then below 25% we switch to DS anyway. I can't really think of much else. |
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May 01, 2009, 04:22 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Lephlock 80 Blood Elf Warlock Earthen Ring US RP Guild: Team Awesome Talent Spec: 0/55/16 |
Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
Baleeted, I made a mistake. Added: Carnall I know it's never in the rotation over at EJ, so I'm thinking there is some reason for it, but I'm not sharp enough to figure it out. I'm a Meta lock, and I need SB to start my Soulfire rotation for Decimate under 35%, but I have not tried a regular rotation with Soulfire in it.
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http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_post_3_1_specs/ Lephlock 80 Demonology Warlock <TEAM AWESOME> - Earthen Ring US Last edited by Lephturn; May 01, 2009 at 04:29 PM.. Reason: Lol whut? |
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May 01, 2009, 04:25 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
so is my logic holding true then? I'll have to test tonight on the target dummy but I'm only mildly geared at level 71. Are there any 80's who can confirm or deny this in practice? *edit Sinister I was thinking the exact same thing about the drain execute, which coincidentally should replace some of the shards used for soulfire. Heh, maybe I shoulda kept quiet I don't want Blizz nerfing this too... Last edited by Carnall; May 01, 2009 at 04:28 PM.. |
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May 01, 2009, 04:31 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Luxury 80 Blood Elf Warlock Deathwing US PvP Guild: Addiction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/0/17 |
Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
Interesting. I'll do some math on it later. First of all, OP, you have SB's coefficients as multiplicative when they are additive. It goes like this: Shadowbolt Equation=> (Coefficient * Spellpower + Base) * (1.15+.05) = Coefficient * (1.15+.05) *Spellpower + (1.15+.05)*Base =1.03*Spellpower + 1.2*Base Soul Fire Equation=> Coefficient*Spellpower + Base =1.15*Spellpower + Base
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May 01, 2009, 04:42 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Status: Darkbinder
Character Info
Aily 80 Human Warlock Doomhammer US PvE Guild: Arisen Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 53/1/17 |
Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
So using Base and no spellpower you get: SB = (1.2*730) / 2.5 = 350.4 SF = 1490 / 4 = 372.5 but at say 2k SP SB = ((1.03 * 2000) + (1.2 * 730)) / 2.5 = 1174.4 SF = ((1.15 * 2000) + 1490) / 4 = 947.5 So there ya go |
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May 01, 2009, 04:43 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
As said as SINisterW it scale less with SP for each +100SP shadowbolt wiill get an additional 85.7 -> 85.7/2.5->34.28 Soulfire will get 115 -> 115/4 -> 28.75 this mean for a warlock with 2200 sp it is a 122dps (in a sp contribution point of view) using soulfire. Your number show it is very close without taking into account the sp contribution. In other world, with high SP gear it will approx. the same dps for both spell. It is true that for only the base damage Soulfire looks better than shadowbolt. I don't have the mats, but because of the spell contribution everthing related to (haste/crit) will scale less too. |
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May 04, 2009, 10:00 AM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
Thanks for the help guys! I'm kinda curious where did you guys get all of your information? *just so next time I can fully research this on my own and you guys can help out other people with their dps/rotations etc. |
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May 04, 2009, 10:13 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Luxury 80 Blood Elf Warlock Deathwing US PvP Guild: Addiction Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 54/0/17 |
Re: soul fire vs shadowbolt for aff? Does SF really add 5% D/Ct?
Spell power coefficient - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft The World of Warcraft Armory Those are the two things I use primarily when figuring out my equations.  The Spell-power coefficient page, not so much anymore since the equation to get the coefficient is pretty straight forward. But it's good reading to understand how our stats correlate with our damage. The talent build I use to look over the tooltips of our talents and know the exact numerical effects of them.For proc rates, I use personal testing, WoWHead, and ElitistJerks.com.
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| 5%, add, aff, d/ct, Fire, sf, Shadowbolt, soul |
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