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August 25, 2009, 03:45 PM
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#41 (permalink) |
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Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
my dg can tank... ;] |
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August 25, 2009, 04:14 PM
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#42 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Anklebīter 80 Human Warlock Blade's Edge US PvE Guild: Elegant Deception Talent Spec: 3/14/54 |
Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
lets see it tank 25 man naxx :P |
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August 25, 2009, 04:22 PM
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#43 (permalink) |
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Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
I haven't had a pet that could hold aggro over me for more than 10-15 seconds since I was level 35, except for the brief period in The Burning Crusade when the VW w/demonic empowerment had the best threat production in the game. I know I VW tanked Maiden at 70. And remember the video of a VW tanking all of Sunwell at 70? @ Vazi the spec you posted is very similar to what I used when I tried tanking. In a 5 man I ended up buffing to 29.5k hp and after talents and armor was at about 70% physical mitigation. And with resilience I was easily over the defense/crit cap. I dropped to a little under 2k sp, but was still hit capped for heroics. It's a shame that in order to get to Meta you won't have enough points to get to some of the better talents in destro. Meta certainly is tempting for a tanking lock though. It's a personal choice. I just don't like relying on the CD and having to pop different abilities. I think the hybrid spec is just as viable with mitigation, healing and threat generation. @ Amaranth your spec looks basically like a filled out version of the 33/28+10 I posted. My only objection there is the demonic resilience. The -15% damage to your pet is needless since they won't be taking damage, and the 3% reduced chance to be critically hit will also likely be redundant since you'll need to stack pvp gear, and therefore be over the defense/crit cap already. |
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August 25, 2009, 07:37 PM
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#44 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Amaranthus 80 Blood Elf Warlock Bleeding Hollow US PvP Guild: REIGN OF DEATH Profile: Talent Spec: 54/12/5 |
Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
Quote:
I saw the first post, started thinking, and went straight to wowhead. I took DR because the 3% could reduce the resilience needed to get the same crit reduction, possibly freeing up some stam gear or gems. Like I said, I'm going to test it out and see what happens, if it's not needed, then it'll be swapped out for something else. |
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August 25, 2009, 11:32 PM
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#45 (permalink) |
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Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
the best stam on gear for clothies would be pvp anyway, and given the destro crit multipliers a heavier destro build will also benefit threatwise from crit over SP (again, favoring pvp). Ideally, DR would be a good talent to take if we had other cloth tanking gear... but with pvp gear being so good for our tanking stats, I think it's probably going to be unnecessary to take DR. :-) If, however, you were going to use VW as OT/CC then DR might be quite a good option. |
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August 31, 2009, 06:19 AM
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#46 (permalink) |
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Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
So i don't know if this counts as tanking but as i will explain it was a good experiment for us. Backstory: So one night me and my buddy, a retri paladin, decided to try if we can 2 man normal utgarde keep. Not the heroic normal one. He came with his laptop to my house so we were able to do beer and wow at the same time. Also it allowed us to take 10 min afk toilet breaks whenever needed due to the increased quantities of beer involved. We had seen from youtube a hunter soloing the same instance (tribunalxhunter i think, not sure, can anyone cofirm?) and heard lot of classes soloing the instance so it shouldn't actually be that much of a deal. But we decided to try 2 manning it. Specs and gear: Well the pally had some sort of pvp retri spec. I don't know much about pallies so ill leave that pallie part questionable. What i do know is but he had a talent that increased the duration oof sacred shield, an ability that has a chance to proc a shield like of thing that reduces damage by something like 500 points or so from the next melee attack and improved blessing of might. Rest is allegedly just standard pvp spec whatever that means, any pallie can elaborate in this better than me. He was wearing honor grinded hateful gear with 2 battlemaster trinkets for hit and i think 1 or two hit old emblem epics (the emblem of heroism stuff) to be at least hit capped. I was using almost the equivalent hateful gear plus one lucky drop of deadly pants from vault of archavon with some stamina enchants (bracer and few gems). Basically pvp gear chanter towards pvp survivability so it would take me 2 and a half hits to kill me rather than just two. I think for pvp gear my hp was rather low with about 19k unbuffed. With kings it was about 21.5 or slightly less. As far as spec goes just look at my profile at wowarmory for my second spec (elraito, aszune - eu) and take the points from emberstorm and move them to demonic resilliance and health funnel so i sacrificed quite a bit of dps for mitigation. Thats it. Also as far as glyphs go i used felguard (ap increase on fellie) and glyph of health funnel so it wouldn't break when something is punding me accidentally. I also used glyph of fear so that it wouldnt break at the first tick of paladins aoe thing (consecraction? anybody confirm the name?) should the feared mob accidentally run the wrong way. In the end we both agreed that only actuyally required enchant was the 15 stamina, minor run speed increase enchant. (tuskarr's vitality i think) due to pulling difficulties at first. "specifically" chanting for stuff is not needed imo with demonic resilliance and health funnel. Macros: Well i hit wowwiki and used the chain fearing macro there (the mouseover one which focuses fear target). Was pretty handy in keeping 4 man pulls to 2 (pallie repentance removing the other mob from combat) As we clearedalong I also started using mouseover for target change cause binding that to mouse special button 5 was just bloody comfortable.The macro was rateher simmple. If no mouseover pet attacks target, if mosueover exists attack that one /petattack [target=mouseover,exists]; petattack Also i used the trinket macro but replaced the trinkets with demonic empowerment for every spell i pretty much had so that it was on cooldown for almost all the time. Did this because the normal macro sound "ability is not yet ready" was driving me mad. Example and substitute with any spell you imagine: #showtooltip Incinerate /console Sound_EnableSFX 0 /cast Demonic Empowerment /cast Incinerate /console Sound_EnableSFX 1 /run UIErrorsFrame:Clear() For channeled spells like drain life and health funnel i used: #showtooltip /stopmacro [channeling] /cast Health Funnel After 4th beer accidental keypresses seemed to start interrupting my play so that macro made lot of spells sort of spammable which in my world just means i didn't restart the channel losing some ticks while maniacly pounding the keyboard. Your definition of spammable spell macro may vary. Those macros were all created by someone else than me so hit google for credits and authors. The pallie only made 3 macros, 1 to target felguard and cast sacred shield on it for damage reduction, and 2 other for targeting me and himself for casting Blessing of Salvation which helped me actually do some dps rather than just playing at the borderline of overaggroing while using health funnel and also saving shards from using soulshatter all the time. In the end we counted on BoSalv so much we decided it was the the most important thing to consider, rest was just icing on the cake. Buffs, consumables: I used the whole instance 40 haste/stam food. Entering i thought having shorter channel on health funnel would make difference but honestly it didn't so one can use whatever he likes imo. We both stacked like maniacs for health and mana potions and we used quite a lot of them throughout the time. It was in constant need. Also i entered with several stacks of those pet food things that give 30 str/stam to pet (kibler bites or something like that). The stam on the food was irrelevant but the ap from strenght scales quite nicely for just a food buff on felguard imo with the fellie stacking buff and glyph. At first i used the scrolls of stamina but they turned out to be so little of difference that i ended using scrolls of strenght on both my pallie and fellie. The 30 str you get from it is not much, tbh it doesnt make almost no fdifference on felguard at all if you ask me but it did help scaling the attack power a little bit further and after few wipes i just got used to buffing fellie as a routine with it. Due to the constant spamming of "out of normal rotation spells" he decided to use the seal of wisdom and blessing of wisdom because he was running constantly into mana problems. At first he did use seal of command but in the end the little dps loss from seal and blessing actually made a HUMONGOUS effect onaggro management by easing it loads and also solved he's mana issues. By out of rotation spells what i actually mean are the blessings of salvation, sacred shield and few occasional extra heals when the health funnel just didn't cut it. I say out of rotation because they dont give any dps to ret pallie and only waste global cooldowns. He gave kings to me, bow, and kings to fellie. Halfway through the instance we didn't look a at the actual effect and started to rely more on what feels better. This was when we decided that blessing of might on fleguard was a better choice. Any tehorycrafter is welcome to overthrow me on this statement but it just felt in stomach that fellie held aggro better with bom and the stamina increase from kings just didn't seems to make THAT much of a difference. We consideredusing blessing of salvation for stamina and 3% damage reduction but tbh threat was bigger issue than survivability for us. Also at first he used armor aura for mitigation but in the end we decided that retribution (the reflected damage) was just better choice. I dont know how the reflected damage affects threat management but we did not notice any noticable changes in mitigation from armor sodecided for that extra laughably small dps just to make things die sooner even if it turned a 60 sec fight into 59.9 sec fight. As what goes for flasks i used frost wyrm since apparently healthfunnel healing scaled with spell power so it tunred to give the most effect, pallie used endless or relentless rage flask (or whateva the frost wyrm flask melee dps versions is actually called, dont care im lock, i don't do melee) Also i did quite a lot of armor switching even while in combat cause i found that demon armor adds too little armor to fellie to keep it up all the time but was extremely helpful to switching to it just before health potting, health stoning, death coiling and some fights where i just switched between health funnel/drain life So the instance going: Well we started first with some unlucky pulls and wiped a few times on on trash before we got our stuff sorted so we could clear properly. I decided that felguard on passive with mouseover targeting gave best results as we relied a lot on crowd control (brings back so much memories from burning crusade, god i miss cc demanding fights, as nowadays only pvp demands extensive use of cc (well people use cc in ulduar but its just 1 dungeon and thus not much importance in my life, sorry hardcore raiders, i still do like you folk). The pulls in it self were quite simple but we screwed up at first few times cause of bad timing and stuff like that. In essence the pull on trash: pallie uses repentance and this pulls the back, then we run waaaaaaaay back even to the front of instance if needed. This was because of the unreliablility of fear. Watching cooldown on fear we concluded that with diminishing returns we could keep 1 mob chain feared for approx 45 sec depending on when i refreshed it, it was less at first but i became better watching it as we progressed through sometimes lasting almost aminute sometimes getting broken by accidental damage and so on (not used to fear lasting whole duration in pvp). So once repented we run back, once we felt comfortable i started casting fear, then the pallie stoppped, the fear lands and by the time the left over 1 or 2 mobs depending on pull (remember pulled by repent so they go for pallie) were on my buddy i sent in felguard, due to long fights charge was available for pretty much every pull. The reasoning was that once feliie charged in the cleave hit 2 mobs and thus the fellie had aggro, then the pallie back stepped for about 10 seconds while felguard was building up he's attack power buff. I kept channeling healthfunnel all the time because of mitigation effects and well tbh to live. While funneling i swapped fellies targets roughly every 2 stacks of buff he had this proved to be enough to overaggro the funnel since the cleave has ridicously long cooldown. Once stacks were up the pallie joined in on gfight. From that point on the fellie had quite solid level of threat for our gear so we could dps sort of freely. Throwing in BoSalv-s kept us quite happy with felguard tanking. At this poijnt the biggest hardship for pallie was mana management and for me it was deciding and balancing rotation to funnel, drain life or do some damage from fire spells. This Was pretty much how we did the whole trash. The one exception was few undead mob trashes where we found that easiest way to handle it was well, blowing all cooldowns, aoe the scheit out of them and chugging health pots/stones like fratboys do beer on summer break. Luckyli the undead trash was mostly non elite's so they were not that much of difficult. Bosses: Prince Keleseth: Actually the easiest one even though you might think that the trash spawn may kill you it dies ridicoulously fast from aoe and the tombs are ultra simple management, if i was tombed the pallie broke me out, if he was tombed i broke him out, easy as pie. We did wipe on first try but on second we discovered that hugging the boss at base was more effective, even for me. Also at least one of the the skeleton spawns became lot easier on second time since the pallie remembered he had some sort of aoe undead stun thing (i dont know what its called) but it had long cooldown so we only managed to use it once. We considered using shadow resistance aura but in the end we used armor one. We switched to retri aura after this boss due to not noticing any feffect at all. Considering this was normal mode , one must remember it was as easy as hell to dps him down. Skarvald and Dalron: Well it was harder than first so we actually felt the progression difficulty. This one was really really hard at first 2 tries we did. The biggest problem was that ytou get knocked back a lot, stunned, interrupted and whole lot of other things on top of that you have to manage fellie tanking by switching from target toi target constantly to keep aggro on both bosses all the while trying to keep the damage the bosses took almost equal. This was the first boss where the pallie was forced to bubble for once and he had to use hand of freedom (the spinning circle buff that removes snares) on fellie to keep him in combat and also at one point i couldnt out heal myself with drain life, death coil and pot/stone combo so he had to use the pysical immunity bubble on me and chuck a heal to me.Also the adds, the 2 skeletons taht constantly kept summoned by 1 boss were much tougher than the first bosses one but they were non elites so we had to resort to pallie handlinjg the adds solo as i was barely getting any break from constant interrupts/stuns, pushback from adds, bosses and so on (yes i accidentally overaggroed one of the boss once) and i spent almost all the fight worjking on keeping fellie alive rather than doing any damage. Tbh the last try we did when we finally got them down i managed to throw out only 1 dps spell and that was rain of fire to help pallie finish adds sooner and give him time to throw a few heals for me (the bubble stuff i was talking earlier). In the end we chugged a whole beer for downing him and let loose extremly "roary" battlecry that increased the dps for rest of the instance by 10000 points. Wekll in our minds at least :D. We both considered this boss the hardest of all of them and the fight took us eventually ages to down them both. Ingvar: Well the last boss was actually THE easiest fight if them all. Believe it or not. It was superbly easy actually. Only thing i had to watch was the roar and for the pallie the hardest thing was sealf healing behind a pillar (honestly re-read this sentence and think a little about the word "hardest"). >Since i was quite used to now with interrupts i did managed to watch quite closely the boss cast bar. The pallie self healing was needed more in 1st phase not because of roar damage but because im not sure but it looked like the boss had similar ability like felguards cleave that hits nearest ally as well as the target. Also the 1st phase is dps race because the boss enrages periodically increasing damage AND one must remember it stacks quite careful balance between healing/dps management is needed but still its easier than the 2nd boss. 2nd phase is much easier than it sounds actually, just like 1st phase, this is dps race as you will be getting stacking debuff that increases shadow damage taken. However a lot of the damage can be mitigated by pillar humping, and running around the moment you see a whirling axe on the battlefield. Also what we found by accident that it made the boss easier was to constanlty play with the passive and petattack buttons to sort of move the boss around the area in circles on the outer edge. The moving did put some stress on funneling/draining/dpsing but by that time it was nothing we hadn't seen before. Conclusion: Rather than start flaming at people "no you newbs, it can't be done" well this was our try. normal easiest northrend instance 2 manning felguard tanking and i wanted to insert some constructive ideas to topic. Do remember lot of people have actually soloed this instance so it isnt neither hard nor something to boast about but we had quite a lot of fun and rediscovering lot stuff we had forgotten in Wrath of the Lich King (cc, some spells we never used before cause we have gotten so deep into just spamming big balls of fire, threat micro management, so on). I hope somebody finds something useful from my post and will reply in lines of: "UK is bollocks piss easy, i/we did x instance and this is how we did it:". We did wipe quite a lot while discovering mechanics and so the repair bills ended quite high with lot of money spent on consumables and such and also the loot is crap nowadays anyway even disenchanted and it takes waaaaaay too long to clear even if you would not wipe but i repeat it was good fun, especially the beer part of the instance. So general tips: stocks up on goods, figure your spec and glyphs and try try try until you fail miserably to know what is the limit. P.S: Seriously hoping to see replies in lines of:"I/We did x instance this way." and "Use this spec/glyphs/gear" for more ideas. Also this weekend we gonna try nexus normal and ill post how it went later. |
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September 18, 2009, 12:02 PM
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#47 (permalink) |
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Character Info
mortedamos 76 Undead Warlock cenarion circle US RP Guild: Shadow and Flame Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/52/15 |
Re: Warlock Tanking in 3.1
How did nexus go? |
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