| Spells, Talents and DPS Discussion DoT's and Curses and Nukes, oh my! Discussion threads on everything relating to the Warlocks Spells, Talents and DPS. |
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October 29, 2009, 01:57 AM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Stop Punishing Crit!!!
One of the things i often counsel other locks on is, once hit-capped and after SP, what stat to favor most? The answer usually lies within one's playstyle as well as gear orientation. The bottom line is although we would all love to have high SP, wicked Haste, surging spirit, as well as devastaing Crit, we are bound by the availability of gear and must make concessions and trade-offs to be competitive. There is little doubt, backed by solid math, that Haste is currently and universally favored most. Just read the new threads and posts. The "old" idea of stacking crit now seems out of favor from what i have read. I do not necessarily disagree with that sentiment. HOWEVER, the truth be told, I could care less what stat is most popular, so long as my DPS looks good. Oh, come on, admit it. It's true. We all want to out-DPS the DPSers and become devastating weapons of warcraft. Its also nice to be "invited to the dance" so to speak of top raids and exploring content. Having gotten real and in regard to the Haste vs. Crit debate, my counsel is as follows: If you can't have it all, have a piece of it. Balance-schmalence, I have never desired to be mediocre. So...If you can't realistically get your Haste above 600-650 at least and become a machine gun nuker, forget about it and go for the Crit! Sure, you wont be casting as fast and you will, undoubtedly, have threat issues with an undergeared tank, but you'll be doing 30-50% more damage per cast, so you don't have to be as fast. A Crit percentage of 30% raw or more is really gonna score in the DPS department, whatever your Haste rating. Not to mention the haste bonus already inherent in Backlash. Not to mention Bloodlust. Not to mention the Entire tier-9 gear set bonus orientation towards Crit, and the fact that Blizzard is virtually SHOVING Crit down our throats with higher than level 226 gear. I can only use myself as a viable example of what adaptation does to ones damage output. (Forgive the lack of math and typos, its just late at night and i'm cooresponding on a whim.) When I was running with 2200SP unbuffed, 21% crit and 400 Haste, I was balanced alright. Balanced right into the DPS grave. Then i tried to stack Haste, as most suggest, and ran with Crit about 18% and Haste about 500 or so. Big improvement?..NOT! My haste wasn't high enough to blast into space, and i performed mid-ranged on the charts. So I did something radical... I abandoned Haste and went with Crit, especially once i was able to start purchasing tier-9 from triumph badges. My Crit went into orbit at about 30% unbuffed and i found that although my SP and Haste were mediocre, the stacking of Crit worked. I was again banging out 6K + in raids and 3-4K in heroics. I was back! Crit can work for you and work well. Just find something to shine! 
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October 29, 2009, 06:01 AM
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#2 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
lilsteele 80 Human Warlock Terenas Euro PvE |
Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
Quote:
But haste will just work that little bit better! |
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0 members liked this post. 1 members didn't.
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October 29, 2009, 06:41 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
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Character Info
Jenerena 80 Blood Elf Warlock Executus Euro PvP Guild: Deliverance Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
It all comes down to the scale factors. The point is, you don't need as much haste to increase your dps. You would need an incredible amount of crit when dropping haste to get an overall increase. It's almost like you're making hard work of it, by stacking crit. Look at the numbers. Of course crit can and will work for you, but haste and spell power will work more. Whatever item comes up in a raid that could be an upgrade, if it has haste whereas the item you have has crit, then that item is going to be better. We all care about what our dps looks like of course, but stacking of a stat is just making hard work of it. Like i say, you would need alot of crit which would be in place of haste, and what would you gain by replacing haste with crit? Not much. This is why we try to balance stats. It's easier when considering the variety of gear there is out there. It is not an ultimate priority, but i don't think you're doing yourself any favours stacking a stat that isn't as good as other stats. |
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1 members liked this post. 0 members didn't.
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October 29, 2009, 08:39 AM
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#4 (permalink) |
 
Status: Subscriber
Character Info
Dyson 80 Human Warlock Scilla US PvP Guild: Eden Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/13/58 |
Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
Summary: Even if you assumed both stats were equal, it takes 32.79 haste to = 1% haste, and 45.91 crit to make 1% crit Point for point, haste is more efficient at buffing the ability to get more damage out. |
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October 29, 2009, 09:52 AM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
crit is more mana efficient too. |
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October 29, 2009, 10:21 AM
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#6 (permalink) | ||
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Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
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Quote:
I do appreciate that people have to make do with what drops and what they win. However, you've now made the choice to stack crit gear, and from a dps perspective that's simply wrong. Of course you're doing more damage than you used to because you're moving into a new item level of gear, but ignoring the fact that haste works better doesn't serve anyone in your raid or the lock community in general, especially when you're encouraging it on the forums. Imagine for a moment that your post is the first post a new warlock reads.  At least you're not gemming for raw crit, although the amount of gems you rely on for your hit rating is disconcerting. It's really not a good philosophy to base your gear around. Again, you're shooting yourself in the foot here for no reason. Get more haste. |
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October 29, 2009, 10:27 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Character Info
Majestrix 80 Human Warlock Kargath US PvE Guild: Keepers of the Old Ways Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 1/55/15 |
Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
Quote:
I agree with everything you said except this. I also have to use gems for hit. Would I prrefer not to? Sure, but currently the gear I have simply doesn't have the amount of hit I need. Yes there are pieces out there I can get to improve my hit and when (and/or if) I acquire them I will regem for haste, but telling someone not to gem for hit does not make a lot of sense. We all know hit is the most important stat, so if you are under cap you must do whatever you can to get there. I still use the VH trinket in raids to get me over the cap. Do I have better trinkets? Yes, but I need the hit, leaving me very few options.
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Maj |
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October 29, 2009, 11:05 AM
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#8 (permalink) |
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Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
Another "I know what the math says, but heres why I don't go along with it" thread? Seriously? It's like the umpire who blew the call in the baseball game a couple weeks back. His response was LITERALLY, "I've seen the replay and I don't believe it". Is crit bad? No, and nobody is saying that. Point for point is it a better investment than haste? No and nobody (even the OP) is saying that. |
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October 29, 2009, 11:30 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
It's quite hard to avoid crit. I'm packing around 32% crit raid buffed right now and I've basically gone for upgrades and maxing the overall DPS I can get from the items available to me and that's the way it's gone. It's been harder and harder to stack haste since naxx. I'm making a serious attempt at keeping my haste up and it's just not happening, I keep taking items with 8 less haste 60 more crit and 20 more spellpower or the like. I don't agree with the OP but if he went with "best items available" rather than "I must stack crit" he'd probably not notice a huge difference. It's quite hard to avoid crit unless you're really fussy on gear, while personally I just grab significant upgrades and worry about BiS and the like when everyone in my raid group who can roll on gear is packing 245 *then* I'll worry about getting the extra 0.5% out of gear. As a result. Crit. The OP's damage increase comes from the fact that most easily attainable top gear at the moment has crit. Lots of it. He's stacked the highest crit items he can and they just happen to be among the better ones. Due to ilevel. |
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October 29, 2009, 11:42 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Re: Stop Punishing Crit!!!
Crit is always RNG based. You can have a 45% tooltip of crit and only get 30% crit on a boss. You can have a 25% crit rating and pull 60% on the actual boss. Crit is more expensive than haste, as somebody else mentioned. Haste also indirectly buffs crit because you cast more spells and have more chances to crit. Furthermore, Haste helps with spell pushback and mobility. Yes, our tier gear is loaded with crit, but we aren't Fire mages. We have no hotstreak proc. On off-set pieces if you have access to t9, I would not stack crit on off pieces. The only places that I would go for crit are on pieces that are specifically better for us. For instance: I would use this: Polished Dragonslayer's Signet - Item - World of Warcraft over Frozen Loop - Item - World of Warcraft if I didn't require the hit as there's more spell power there. But until haste and crit appear on the same item with spirit, then I would recommend sticking with the same heirarchy: Hit to cap (considering buffs) > Spell power > Haste > Spirit > Crit. If I were affliction, that would probably be the only place that I would favor Crit above spirit or even haste since you need your DoTs to crit a ton and only UA, Shadow Bolt, and Drain Soul truly scale of haste in a manner that can't totally be negated by inevitable lag. |
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