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The Warlocks Den - WoW Warlock Discussions » Discussion Forums » Spells, Talents, Pets and DPS Discussion » Lock AOE DPS Cap

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Old May 03, 2010, 07:40 AM   #1 (permalink)

Character Info
Danlor
80 Human Warlock
dath'remar Oceania PvE
Guild: Travesty
3.3 Lock AOE DPS Cap

I always felt my AOE was not as capable as other classes since the damage cap of 10x damage divided by number of mobs hit... and here is my proof:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This was before Sindr in icc on 10 man, 15% buff. I personally was not fully buffed, but neither were the other two. My DPS hard caps at 40k as I'm seeding the dragons. The other two classes surge past me, and peak out at over 80Kdps!

Opinions?
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Old May 03, 2010, 08:40 AM   #2 (permalink)

Character Info
Eschatos
85 Gnome Warlock
Moonglade Euro RP PvE
Guild: Nightfall
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction
3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

Hmm...I will give you my opinion, but I'm not an expert on these =p
Each AoE ability has a hard cap I take it, right? You were using only SoC, thats just one source of damage, so you reached the cap for SoC (100% SoC). On the other hand, the DK had 6 sources of damage, the druid had 2 sources of damage. Strange thing, the above didn't apply to the rogue, but did on the mage.
That's how I can explain it, or just mess it up lol

From the 3.3 patch notes, from EJ:
Quote:
Area-of-Effect Damage Caps: We've redesigned the way area damage is capped when hitting many targets. Instead of a hard cap on total damage done, the game now caps the total damage done at a value equal to the damage the spell would do if it hit 10 targets. In other words, if a spell does 1000 damage to each target, it would hit up to 10 targets for 1000 each, but with more than 10 targets, each target would take 1000 damage divided by the number of targets. 20 targets would be hit for 500 damage each in that example.
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Old May 03, 2010, 10:43 AM   #3 (permalink)

Character Info
Glargh
85 Undead Warlock
Hellscream US PvE
Guild: Convictions
Talent Tree: Destruction
3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

I can't see how this would affect game play at all. You were half a percent away from doing the more damage than anyone else. You are looking at a 5 second window, when everyone did about the same amount of damage on the fight. Are you just searching for something to complain about?
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Old May 03, 2010, 11:06 AM   #4 (permalink)

Character Info
weezah
80 Gnome Warlock
aggramar US PvE
Guild: the enclave
Profile: WoW Rankings
3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

i myself am unbeatable in aoe situations using soc. the mages, rogues hunters ect. they all try but none can compete with the power of soc on afflic lock. especially in icc10/25. we have absolutely nothing to complain about there. the poor mages wish they could dps like us now the logs dont show what spell you were using. and why the sudden drop in dps? how do you cast your aoe. myself i lt then spam tab ,soc,tab,soc ect. if you have a haste trinket use it and watch yur dps climb even higher
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Old May 03, 2010, 04:28 PM   #5 (permalink)

Character Info
Preferra
90 Human Warlock
Ravenholdt Euro PvP
Guild: Ironforge Guardians
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Talent Tree: Affliction Demonology
3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

I made a SoC macro:
Code:
/petattack [@pettarget,noexists]
/cleartarget [dead]
/targetenemy [nodead]
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/use 13
/use [spec:2] 14
/cast [spec:2] Demonic Empowerment
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/cast Seed of Corruption
This macro makes spamming SoC reeeeally easy
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Old May 03, 2010, 04:59 PM   #6 (permalink)

Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

Smart mages stack Flamestrike and Blizzard, bad mages blizzard.
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Old May 03, 2010, 05:20 PM   #7 (permalink)

Character Info
Danlor
80 Human Warlock
dath'remar Oceania PvE
Guild: Travesty
3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by rooter View Post
I can't see how this would affect game play at all. You were half a percent away from doing the more damage than anyone else. You are looking at a 5 second window, when everyone did about the same amount of damage on the fight. Are you just searching for something to complain about?
Please follow the link and take a loot at the chart. It describes what Im talking about visually. Its quite stunning. Keep in mind that during certain parts of the day the graph is not available due to server load.

Bettering ones self is not complaining. From my experience... and as bare out in this instance, no matter how many seeds i'm tossing, and no matter how many mobs I have at my disposal, I cannot do over 40kdps. At the same time, lessor or equaled geared Dk and druids are doing TWICE the aoe peak damage.

How are their mechanics or skills getting around the cap? Am I limiting myself somehow? Things get interesting in AOE past 10 or more mobs. In ICC we see this quite often. In almost all cases, my AOE is unbeatable.... until we pull 30-50 at once lol. There must be a good reason for this, and i think Eschatos is on the right track. Again, Im not complaining, just surprised and curious.

I think what it comes down to, is a large portion of the DK AOE was not AOE. The DK can spread their dots to all enemies within 10 yards. I always thought this was capped, but it appears its not.
The Druid was using two abilities, and that was effectively doubling their AOE cap. The mage was in the same boat as me using only one ability.

Since Lock AOE outside of meta is limited to one casted aoe(SOC), and two channeled(RoF/HF), it seems there are few options for stacking AOE attacks as the Druid and DK did. Does that make sense? Any ideas for next time?
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Old May 03, 2010, 06:06 PM   #8 (permalink)

Character Info
Skulldriélle
80 Human Warlock
Die ewige Wacht Euro RP PvE
Profile: Blizzard Armory
Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

Trash: Serious Business


World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
damage done > dps
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Old May 03, 2010, 06:18 PM   #9 (permalink)

Character Info
Jesterlock
85 Gnome Warlock
Quel'Thalas Euro PvE
Guild: Dragons
Talent Tree: Demonology Destruction
Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

what you need to do is understand how the aoe cap affects us, and not rogues and dk's.

All casters are in the same boat.

While our aoe gets capped because it's possible, rogues' and dk's doesn't, because it's impossible.
rogues-FoK is capped like other point blank aoe's. The difference is the poisons. They hit for normal damage (instant poison) or tick for normal damage(deadly) on every mob around the rogue. It's basically impossible to limit the number of mobs, or to decrease the damage withour breaking the ability.
deathknights- basically the same as rogues. They put 2 diseases up on a target, then they pestilence adn spread the diseases to ALL the targets around. the diseases will tick on every mob like they would on a single mob.

To be honeste i'm not that bothered by it.
There's only 2 places in ALL wrath that i found rogues and dk's outdpsing me on AoE - and that's the whelps at onyxia(if you pull to many) or the 2 trash packs before sindragosa(also whelps
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Old May 05, 2010, 12:13 PM   #10 (permalink)

3.3 Re: Lock AOE DPS Cap

Every class have some kind cap, just the difference you see in graph is cause some classes have more bursty aoe for those couple seconds, but for them to reach that peak they seem to need some time for it and also their dps goes down fast after peak, that means in practice it isn't "better" performance in Any way if at the end your total damage is always same. So the peaks in graph are quite meaningless and are also affected by which kind of formula/window is used to count dps at each moment. What matters is how fast it can kill the mobs. If you could see after trash is dead that some class made much more damage then you can say they performed better, but DPS itself is sometimes quite misleading(and miscalculated) stat.

However if you want to see higher peaks, seed as many mobs as you can then quickly detonate them with Shadowfury.. in 25mans you probably can't cast more than 1-2 before last one explodes, but in 5mans this can actually be fun if you've got 5 seeds on low hp mobs and then can set off them all at once. Also as demo lock you can peak alot higher when using SoC+immolation aura and maybe even RoF after.
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