Disheartened. How can I suck less?

Umbralpuff · March 12, 2008, 02:59 PM

I'm not quite sure if this is right forum or not. I apologize if it isn't. If there were a forum for "How can I suck less." I would have posted there

I'll probably touch on a number of different topics that are coverred in other forums, but I'll try not to be too repetative in my questions. I have been reading the post's of others.

Last Night..

I was with some friends I group with on a regular basis (me, 2 fire mages, druid tank, and holy priest). Sometimes one of the firemages plays a shadowpriest. We were in regular shattered halls for the daily quest and possible pattern/formula drops. It was a smooth run, with exception of nasty lag spike and a healer d/c. Then the damage gets posted. Now I'm not a huge meter maid, but I was 4th behind the tank...THE TANK?!? I was only 4% above the healer. WTH? I did use Curse of Elements for the mages, which may have nerfed my damage somewhat but still... Needless to say, I'm questioning my view of reality. I'm used to getting my rear kicked by the mages, but damn.

So..here it comes? How can I suck less? My own thoughts on this..

1) My gear needs improvement. I have plans in place for this. I'm working on the spellstrike set, as well as some badge loot and drops for some obvious weak areas..namely belt and jewelry/trinkets. All of it could be upgraded but those are my problem children at the moment. Along with the items themselves, I'm planning on enchant/gem/inscription upgrades as well.

2)Talent Spec. It occurs to me that I don't raid. Why am I affliction? I don't intend to start raiding anytime soon. I wouldn't mind seeing end game content, but I can't devote the time and resources that raiding guilds on my server seem to require. So I stick to 5-mans (regular and heroics), questing and farming. I really dislike pvp with a passion..so I might do a BG now and then with friends, but I don't feel a need to spec for it.

So basically, I found that with parties I'm usually in, we burn down things really quickly. My dots are little more than pretty decoration with 2 firemages in the party and a druid tank that does a fair bit of damage. I simple don't have the gear to go destro (and likely won't for awhile) so I'll probably end up going with some sort of demo/destro combo that I'm still researching. At the same time I'm looking to get a fair bit more +crit as well.

3) Tactics: for last night's shameful performance..On trash i would usually CoElm-Corr-Immolate-SB...if I was lucky I could get of a SB before the mob was dead. Bosses I dotted up and refresehd as necessary with SB spamming..still used CoElm, perhaps I shouldn't have.

I'm just confused and I guess..not really sure what i'm asking other than, help.

What can I do if I only go in 5-mans and we burn things down so quickly? My gear doesn't support destruction at this point, though I'm working on it. I can get specifics from the forum posts I've read, but I'm looking for more general guidance at this point. I guess I could just be happy to be with friends...or roll a mage, but I like my lock.

Vorph · March 12, 2008, 03:25 PM

First off, I would try this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (7/43/11 Felguard). With two mages, you aren't needed for CC, and with a druid tank (trivially easy to gear up pre-raid) an imp is generally unnecessary as well. Might as well get the most dps you can out of your pet.

Next, get your spell hit to 76 so you don't get resisted in heroics more than 1% of the time. +10 crit rating on your gloves isn't helping you, so changing that to +15 hit would get you almost all the way there. You can regain the crit via a scryer enchant on your shoulders if you want. Unless you're planning to get Spellstrike made fairly soon, go ahead and slap a Mystic Spellthread on your current legs. Don't worry about getting a lot of crit, what you want is spell damage more than anything else.

With that done, you should actually be ready for heroics and they should be really easy for that group of yours. I'd estimate you should be doing about 700 dps or so, counting the FG.

Tactics: CoE was definitely the right curse; only switch to CoS if one of the mages switches to spriest. For trash, I wouldn't cast immolate or corruption unless it's on something like a Tempest-Forge Destroyer or something similar where you're guaranteed to get full duration on your DoTs. On trash that dies in 10 sec or so, go right to shadow bolting after the curse. For bosses you'll want to do the full rotation and keep them refreshed though.

Longer Term: Spellstrike is huge for you considering you don't raid. In 2.4, getting a Belt of Blasting made should be pretty easy (30 badges, materials, and a click-the-button fee). For other badge items, the wand, trinket, either one of the offhands, and the bracer are very nice. Shiffar's Nexus-Horn is a big chunk of crit if you want to look towards going to destruction. If you don't mind pvp, picking up either a staff or a mainhand is a really good idea, and both the neck and ring are very nice too. The bracer is very cheap if you prefer honor to spending 35 badges.

Swoop · March 12, 2008, 05:19 PM

Don't be too embarrassed about being behind a druid tank on damage. If, as you say, you're still gearing up on your pre-raid gear, then you're not at your maximum potential. Bear tanks tend to output significantly more damage than a prot warrior or prot paladin would, since a lot of their threat is based on damage more than "extra threat generating specials". (although a prot paladin AE tanking can generate some nice damage)

You haven't given a real indication of the bear tank's gear, but reading between the lines of what you posted, he's reasonably geared to be able to hold agro over two high damage mages. I've been playing my feral bear as tank quite a bit lately, and I've embarrassed a few dps by out damaging them in instances.

Also, as you pointed out, in a fast killing group like that, dots aren't getting anywhere close to their full potential. For me, personally, when I was playing my warlock regularly, and in a fast killing group, I wouldn't even bother with corruption. I'd usually immolate (front loaded damage to pad the damage meter

) and then SB, or only spam SB (if you can count 1 or 2 SB's as spamming) Getting a faster casting SB is a must (IMO) when you're running 5 mans regularly, since the 0.5 second can make a real difference, even if it's just to you personally. Not getting an SB off before a mob is dead can leave you feeling useless.

Other than that, it's just gearing up. Putting CoE up for your mages was the right thing to do. Curse of Agony would be a waste of mana, and for the cost of one GCD you've increased your mages damage. Sometimes you just have to sacrifice some personal dps to make the group better.

connico · March 12, 2008, 06:10 PM

Your Affliction, end of story.

Your not going to do to much damage in a normal instance esp if the mob is going to die in like a few seconds. And it looks like you now this already. Either respec hybrid or respec Demon/Destro if you feel like you want to do more damage on trash.

Affliction really only shines on bosses, i suspect the damage meter you got link was a total of the run.

Stanis · March 12, 2008, 07:14 PM

Ok, very simple answer here.

Do not cast a full set of dots on trash mobs , if they die in less than 10 seconds. Just spam nukes.

-Stanis

MrUnderpants · March 12, 2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanis

Ok, very simple answer here.

Do not cast a full set of dots on trash mobs , if they die in less than 10 seconds. Just spam nukes.

-Stanis

yep...maybe throw on one insta dot and spam SBs.

Zoink · March 17, 2008, 01:52 AM

You and 2 firemages? Try for fun to drop the SB spam and go: CoE, Immo, Incinerate spam.

Oh and yes, the affliction specc is a killer in 5 man when the mobs drop to fast. Back when I was an affy SSC raiding Lock I got my *** handed to me by a nonraiding 21/40 lock in SL 5 man, even though I was still in the top 5-1 in SSC and TK runs.

- Zoink

Valimir · March 17, 2008, 03:12 AM

I'm affy too and am used to falling low in the meters for 5-mans, and even on the overall meters in raids (always make sure to check the boss meters for an ego boost

). But being just 4% above the healer is pretty bad. Affliction can work in 5-mans, I usually throw instant Corruption for the nightfall proc and spam the bolts then use Shadow Burn to finish. If it's a caster mob then CoT goes up as well. Only Arcane Watchmen type mobs get a full DoT rotation.

Another thing you can maybe do if your bear is a good tank, or if you get a pally tank, is DoT up the second target as they will run the full course. Don't do this with prot warriors, I've tried it and most can't hold enough aggro on two targets which usually means another dead warlock

If you go Felguard remember to turn off the autocast abilities especially Anguish as it will take aggro away from tanks, and cleave can hit cc'd mobs.

sonte · March 17, 2008, 01:34 PM

As everybody has said do not worry about it to much. However if you want to go with affliction, try something like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. This is very similar to what i used pre-raiding. On trash throw up CoE and corruption (or just corruption)for a possible nightfall proc, and then spam sbolts. Finish off with a shadow burn for some nice instant dps. It takes a little while to get used to timing shadow burn to make sure you get the shard back depending on how fast the mob dies, but with 5 mans it is best to do it when the mob is at 5-6k help. I have also noticed that untill i was geared enough and switched to a 0/21/40 build a similarly geared mage would out dps me on trash all of the time.

Umbralpuff · March 17, 2008, 02:11 PM

Thanks for all the advice. It was quite helpful. I'm finding the Felguard to be very satisfying; I'm really looking forward to its cleave not breaking cc, assuming the patch notes I read don't lie.

Candianpimp's pre-raid gear lists are fantastically helpful.

I guess in my own defense regarding coming in 4% above the healer, both the tank and the healer were fairly well geared. At times the priest gets bored enough at not having to heal to the extent that he puts on his santa gear and spams smites while his starshards are on CD. When he is in his healing gear, his +spell damage is about the same as my +spell damage. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

March 12, 2008, 02:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
Umbralpuff Member Character Info Crocus 70 Gnome Warlock Garona US PvE Guild: Prismatic Order Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 7/43/11	Disheartened. How can I suck less? I'm not quite sure if this is right forum or not. I apologize if it isn't. If there were a forum for "How can I suck less." I would have posted there I'll probably touch on a number of different topics that are coverred in other forums, but I'll try not to be too repetative in my questions. I have been reading the post's of others. Last Night.. I was with some friends I group with on a regular basis (me, 2 fire mages, druid tank, and holy priest). Sometimes one of the firemages plays a shadowpriest. We were in regular shattered halls for the daily quest and possible pattern/formula drops. It was a smooth run, with exception of nasty lag spike and a healer d/c. Then the damage gets posted. Now I'm not a huge meter maid, but I was 4th behind the tank...THE TANK?!? I was only 4% above the healer. WTH? I did use Curse of Elements for the mages, which may have nerfed my damage somewhat but still... Needless to say, I'm questioning my view of reality. I'm used to getting my rear kicked by the mages, but damn. So..here it comes? How can I suck less? My own thoughts on this.. 1) My gear needs improvement. I have plans in place for this. I'm working on the spellstrike set, as well as some badge loot and drops for some obvious weak areas..namely belt and jewelry/trinkets. All of it could be upgraded but those are my problem children at the moment. Along with the items themselves, I'm planning on enchant/gem/inscription upgrades as well. 2)Talent Spec. It occurs to me that I don't raid. Why am I affliction? I don't intend to start raiding anytime soon. I wouldn't mind seeing end game content, but I can't devote the time and resources that raiding guilds on my server seem to require. So I stick to 5-mans (regular and heroics), questing and farming. I really dislike pvp with a passion..so I might do a BG now and then with friends, but I don't feel a need to spec for it. So basically, I found that with parties I'm usually in, we burn down things really quickly. My dots are little more than pretty decoration with 2 firemages in the party and a druid tank that does a fair bit of damage. I simple don't have the gear to go destro (and likely won't for awhile) so I'll probably end up going with some sort of demo/destro combo that I'm still researching. At the same time I'm looking to get a fair bit more +crit as well. 3) Tactics: for last night's shameful performance..On trash i would usually CoElm-Corr-Immolate-SB...if I was lucky I could get of a SB before the mob was dead. Bosses I dotted up and refresehd as necessary with SB spamming..still used CoElm, perhaps I shouldn't have. I'm just confused and I guess..not really sure what i'm asking other than, help. What can I do if I only go in 5-mans and we burn things down so quickly? My gear doesn't support destruction at this point, though I'm working on it. I can get specifics from the forum posts I've read, but I'm looking for more general guidance at this point. I guess I could just be happy to be with friends...or roll a mage, but I like my lock.

March 12, 2008, 03:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Vorph Member Character Info Vorphalack 70 Orc Warlock Durotan US PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Disheartened First off, I would try this spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (7/43/11 Felguard). With two mages, you aren't needed for CC, and with a druid tank (trivially easy to gear up pre-raid) an imp is generally unnecessary as well. Might as well get the most dps you can out of your pet. Next, get your spell hit to 76 so you don't get resisted in heroics more than 1% of the time. +10 crit rating on your gloves isn't helping you, so changing that to +15 hit would get you almost all the way there. You can regain the crit via a scryer enchant on your shoulders if you want. Unless you're planning to get Spellstrike made fairly soon, go ahead and slap a Mystic Spellthread on your current legs. Don't worry about getting a lot of crit, what you want is spell damage more than anything else. With that done, you should actually be ready for heroics and they should be really easy for that group of yours. I'd estimate you should be doing about 700 dps or so, counting the FG. Tactics: CoE was definitely the right curse; only switch to CoS if one of the mages switches to spriest. For trash, I wouldn't cast immolate or corruption unless it's on something like a Tempest-Forge Destroyer or something similar where you're guaranteed to get full duration on your DoTs. On trash that dies in 10 sec or so, go right to shadow bolting after the curse. For bosses you'll want to do the full rotation and keep them refreshed though. Longer Term: Spellstrike is huge for you considering you don't raid. In 2.4, getting a Belt of Blasting made should be pretty easy (30 badges, materials, and a click-the-button fee). For other badge items, the wand, trinket, either one of the offhands, and the bracer are very nice. Shiffar's Nexus-Horn is a big chunk of crit if you want to look towards going to destruction. If you don't mind pvp, picking up either a staff or a mainhand is a really good idea, and both the neck and ring are very nice too. The bracer is very cheap if you prefer honor to spending 35 badges. Last edited by Vorph; March 12, 2008 at 03:31 PM.

March 12, 2008, 05:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Swoop Member Character Info Crest 70 Undead Warlock Aman'thul Oceania PvE Profile: Blizzard Armory	Re: Disheartened Don't be too embarrassed about being behind a druid tank on damage. If, as you say, you're still gearing up on your pre-raid gear, then you're not at your maximum potential. Bear tanks tend to output significantly more damage than a prot warrior or prot paladin would, since a lot of their threat is based on damage more than "extra threat generating specials". (although a prot paladin AE tanking can generate some nice damage) You haven't given a real indication of the bear tank's gear, but reading between the lines of what you posted, he's reasonably geared to be able to hold agro over two high damage mages. I've been playing my feral bear as tank quite a bit lately, and I've embarrassed a few dps by out damaging them in instances. Also, as you pointed out, in a fast killing group like that, dots aren't getting anywhere close to their full potential. For me, personally, when I was playing my warlock regularly, and in a fast killing group, I wouldn't even bother with corruption. I'd usually immolate (front loaded damage to pad the damage meter ) and then SB, or only spam SB (if you can count 1 or 2 SB's as spamming) Getting a faster casting SB is a must (IMO) when you're running 5 mans regularly, since the 0.5 second can make a real difference, even if it's just to you personally. Not getting an SB off before a mob is dead can leave you feeling useless. Other than that, it's just gearing up. Putting CoE up for your mages was the right thing to do. Curse of Agony would be a waste of mana, and for the cost of one GCD you've increased your mages damage. Sometimes you just have to sacrifice some personal dps to make the group better.

March 12, 2008, 06:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
connico Member Character Info conikia 70 Gnome Warlock aman'thul Oceania PvE Guild: NWO Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 42/2/17	Re: Disheartened Your Affliction, end of story. Your not going to do to much damage in a normal instance esp if the mob is going to die in like a few seconds. And it looks like you now this already. Either respec hybrid or respec Demon/Destro if you feel like you want to do more damage on trash. Affliction really only shines on bosses, i suspect the damage meter you got link was a total of the run.

March 12, 2008, 07:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
Stanis Member Character Info Stanis 70 Gnome Warlock deathwing Euro PvP Talent Spec: 5/45/11	Re: Disheartened Ok, very simple answer here. Do not cast a full set of dots on trash mobs , if they die in less than 10 seconds. Just spam nukes. -Stanis

March 17, 2008, 01:52 AM	#7 (permalink)
Zoink Member Character Info Zoink 70 Gnome Warlock Twillight's Hammer Euro PvP Guild: Void	Re: Disheartened You and 2 firemages? Try for fun to drop the SB spam and go: CoE, Immo, Incinerate spam. Oh and yes, the affliction specc is a killer in 5 man when the mobs drop to fast. Back when I was an affy SSC raiding Lock I got my *** handed to me by a nonraiding 21/40 lock in SL 5 man, even though I was still in the top 5-1 in SSC and TK runs. - Zoink

March 17, 2008, 03:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
Valimir Member	Re: Disheartened I'm affy too and am used to falling low in the meters for 5-mans, and even on the overall meters in raids (always make sure to check the boss meters for an ego boost). But being just 4% above the healer is pretty bad. Affliction can work in 5-mans, I usually throw instant Corruption for the nightfall proc and spam the bolts then use Shadow Burn to finish. If it's a caster mob then CoT goes up as well. Only Arcane Watchmen type mobs get a full DoT rotation. Another thing you can maybe do if your bear is a good tank, or if you get a pally tank, is DoT up the second target as they will run the full course. Don't do this with prot warriors, I've tried it and most can't hold enough aggro on two targets which usually means another dead warlock If you go Felguard remember to turn off the autocast abilities especially Anguish as it will take aggro away from tanks, and cleave can hit cc'd mobs.

March 17, 2008, 01:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
sonte Member Character Info Sonte 70 Human Warlock Khaz Modan US PvE Talent Spec: 0/21/40	Re: Disheartened As everybody has said do not worry about it to much. However if you want to go with affliction, try something like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. This is very similar to what i used pre-raiding. On trash throw up CoE and corruption (or just corruption)for a possible nightfall proc, and then spam sbolts. Finish off with a shadow burn for some nice instant dps. It takes a little while to get used to timing shadow burn to make sure you get the shard back depending on how fast the mob dies, but with 5 mans it is best to do it when the mob is at 5-6k help. I have also noticed that untill i was geared enough and switched to a 0/21/40 build a similarly geared mage would out dps me on trash all of the time. Last edited by sonte; March 17, 2008 at 01:37 PM.

March 17, 2008, 02:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Umbralpuff Member Character Info Crocus 70 Gnome Warlock Garona US PvE Guild: Prismatic Order Profile: Blizzard Armory Talent Spec: 7/43/11	Re: Disheartened Thanks for all the advice. It was quite helpful. I'm finding the Felguard to be very satisfying; I'm really looking forward to its cleave not breaking cc, assuming the patch notes I read don't lie. Candianpimp's pre-raid gear lists are fantastically helpful. I guess in my own defense regarding coming in 4% above the healer, both the tank and the healer were fairly well geared. At times the priest gets bored enough at not having to heal to the extent that he puts on his santa gear and spams smites while his starshards are on CD. When he is in his healing gear, his +spell damage is about the same as my +spell damage. Not that I'm bitter or anything.