Chaos Bolt - Where does this leave Soul Fire?

[Alyrienne]

Ever since the new talents were made public, I've been wondering about this. Check it out:

Chaos Bolt Rank 1

715 Mana 30 Yard Range
2 Second Cast 12 second Cooldown

Sends a bolt of chaotic fire at the enemy, dealing 990 to 1256 Fire damage. Chaos Bolt cannot be resisted, and pierces through all absorbtion effects.



Soul Fire Rank 4

250 Mana 30 Yard Range
6 Second Cast 60 Second Cooldown
Reagents: Soul Shard

Burns the enemy's soul, causing 1003 to 1257 Fire damage.


The obvious question is why would anyone bother with Soul Fire? Huge cooldown, consumes a shard, can be resisted and has a long cast time.

Chaos Bolt is obviously PvP-aimed, but it's CD is low enough to be used in a PvE DPS fight, and unlike Shadowburn (15 sec CD) doesn't use up Soul Shards.

Is Soul Fire dead code now?

[Khaf]

Not everyone will spec destro so I guess no? If you're asking about detro people then... I don't know.

[Nether]

Not at all. It still has a much higher coefficient, and with the new Backdraft talent, I have been considering it for PvP and PvE due to the fact that with Backdraft and Bane, the cast time drops to 2.8 seconds. Making it a suitable nuke in both PvP and PvE now, depending on the situation. I think Chaos Bolt is as likely to replace Soul Fire as Shadowflame is to replace Shadowburn, if shard cost is all that seperates them. If anything, all the new toys make Soul Fire eve more viable, whereas before it was more of a novelty for getting huge crits and chuckling to one's self.

[gunthertaha]

I am pretty sure Soulfire gets a higher coefficient from spell damage

its casttime/3 so 2 .. which means it get 200% bonus

Chaos bolt would get a lower spell coefficient

2/3 meaning only 66% from spell damage


Longer cast time means higher the spell hits :D

[Devicus]

It's over 3.5 seconds.

However scalability is basically the coefficient per second. The smaller the cast time, the bigger ratio of base coefficient to what it would be if cast time reductions *DIDNT* change scaling, meaning more coefficient per second.

For example, with small amounts of rounding.

Mages fireball 100% 3.5 seconds talented gives 100/3 seconds= 33.3%

Shadowbolt 87%/3 seconds talented gives 87/2.5 = 34.3%

Chaos Bolt 57%/1.5 = 38%

Now if the base damage is also quite high it will provide a DPS increase and one that improves with gear. Assuming it's mana cost isn't so high it greatly increases lifetapping.

[Alyrienne]

All points made are true enough, and yes the cast time will reduce to 2.8 seconds. However, with a cooldown of 60 seconds, where's the advantage?

Even if you included the shard cost, or even doubled the shard cost, a cooldown of 15 or even 20 seconds would make it a viable PvE spell - worthy of being included in the DPS cycle.

Additionally, there would be enough to differentiate it from CB - shards, longer cast time, resist chance, vulnerable to absorbtion etc.

I don't PvP so I don't know much about it's utility in that scenario, but I can honestly say that even when I was specced Destruction ( not for very long) I never once even considered Soul Fire when raiding - I just couldn't see its value.

[Devicus]

Soulfire is pure pvp, and is best used as an opener on incapacitated/CCed enemy, and perhaps as openers on incapacitated pve targets who need to go fast (we count down on rooting of scouts in the dragonhawk wing of ZA)

Chaos bolt will be good for both, but in pvp will make an excellent finisher for when they think they're sheltering/bubbling etc. It will however justify being used in a rotation. Perhaps it's mana cost will mean it will only be worth it on trash but even then, it'll be used.

[Theleb]

Soulfire has its situational uses but is never part of a PvE Rotation because its cast time is, even with Backdraft figured in, too long and even with its potential for high damage crits its just sub-standard. If you cash a Soulfire after Conflagrate you're lowering DPS as the Immolate really needs to be in place and ticking before you do anything else - which is nominally 2 x incinerate.

Chaos Bolt has high base damage, but a low coefficient that again, renders it sub-standard even with Blizzards avowed intent to make it viable in PvE - that said its going to be wonderful for PvP...

Is it dead code? I can't see a situation where I would use it seriously.

[Pernicious]

Let me ask another question, along the same vein. What would it take (without being ridiculous) for Soul Fire to become a worthwhile spell given its current requirements (cast time/shard cost)? 100% crit chance? Benefiting from Immolate being up as Incinerate does? Chance for Backlash to proc an Instant cast?

[Theleb]

All of the above ;p

Realistically, decreased cast time would be enough - anything else would be gravy.